Rear seat elevator trim

aftCG

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Has there seriously never been a champ, citabria or decathlon with elevator trim in the back seat?

Since getting my CFI reinstatement behind me I put anyone who can fog a mirror in the front seat. They have to be able to push the starter button, work the mixture and change radio frequencies (I've since learned to point out the IDENT button to the list of things to point out).

I adopted the technique I learned here for reaching forward with my left foot and it works okay but tough to fine tune. My googlefoo is pretty strong and I have come up empty searching for even a single example of someone adding rear seat trim.

Pipe dream? It doesn't seem like it would be that hard.
 

donv

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Trimming with your foot works. You just need to get used to being slightly out of trim. My theory (as a CFI) is that anyone I put in the front seat should be able to fly to some extent, and certainly should be able to trim the airplane. I don't put zero time people in the front seat.

So generally, when I'm in the back, I'm not flying (except to demo something). I did take my CFI reinstatement in the Citabria, so I have a lot of experience flying it from back there, and the trim with the foot thing works okay.
 

Bartman

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Do you ever get fully comfortable landing from the back seat? I only did it once and the door was off so my hat and headset blew off just as I tried to flare but it felt awkward as hell. Have flown Cubs so back-seating it isn't totally new for me. Thoughts?
 

aftCG

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Do you ever get fully comfortable landing from the back seat? I only did it once and the door was off so my hat and headset blew off just as I tried to flare but it felt awkward as hell. Have flown Cubs so back-seating it isn't totally new for me. Thoughts?
I'm doing it quite a bit now. I put non pilots in front all the time (girlfriend, son, airport bums). If they can turn radio knobs and operate the mixture control without delay then up front they go.
I did learn the hard way to brief where the IDENT button is. Had to use my right foot to point that out. Good times.
Trimming with your foot works. You just need to get used to being slightly out of trim. My theory (as a CFI) is that anyone I put in the front seat should be able to fly to some extent, and certainly should be able to trim the airplane. I don't put zero time people in the front seat.

So generally, when I'm in the back, I'm not flying (except to demo something). I did take my CFI reinstatement in the Citabria, so I have a lot of experience flying it from back there, and the trim with the foot thing works okay.
Yes trimming with the foot works "okay". I make sure to brief passengers about my wandering foot so they don't get the wrong idea.
Curious as a CFI how you would teach a zero time student? These planes have a history that far precedes side by side trainers.

I'm trying to work my way up to flying the T-6 from the back. Unlikely that I'll put a zero time newb up front for that.
 

donv

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I'm doing it quite a bit now. I put non pilots in front all the time (girlfriend, son, airport bums). If they can turn radio knobs and operate the mixture control without delay then up front they go.
I did learn the hard way to brief where the IDENT button is. Had to use my right foot to point that out. Good times.

Yes trimming with the foot works "okay". I make sure to brief passengers about my wandering foot so they don't get the wrong idea.
Curious as a CFI how you would teach a zero time student? These planes have a history that far precedes side by side trainers.

I'm trying to work my way up to flying the T-6 from the back. Unlikely that I'll put a zero time newb up front for that.
You and I obviously have different comfort levels regarding putting people in the front seat. I know I could do fine with a zero time person there, but I don't think it's a good idea. Sure, people used to do it... good for them.

One thing I would strongly suggest is buying a retractable pointer from Amazon. That makes it so much easier to teach when you can point at things.
 

donv

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My personal minimum for putting someone in the front seat is either private pilot, or student who has soloed in something.
 

Bob Turner

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I wouln't go that far. I have soloed students in Citabrias and Aeroncas. I rather suspect that you cannot start an "ab initio" student in the back seat of a Citabria - it is too difficult back there for a newbie. A really good briefing on mixture and radio operation is warranted. Same in the Super Cub.

But in the J3 Cub, which is usually PIC in the back, I put them in front at first so I can watch them lean the wrong way - and I run the radios to lessen their work load.
 

aftCG

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You and I obviously have different comfort levels regarding putting people in the front seat. I know I could do fine with a zero time person there, but I don't think it's a good idea. Sure, people used to do it... good for them.

One thing I would strongly suggest is buying a retractable pointer from Amazon. That makes it so much easier to teach when you can point at things.
Not much they can do wrong other than pulling the mixture out to see what it does. To be clear, the people I've put up there are people I know - in most cases very well but in some cases they are pilots (perhaps not current or not tail wheel endorsed). If I don't think they can handle the tasks I don't bring it up. If they are uncomfortable with the tasks I brief them on then I'll put them in back. I've had people turn it down the first time but express interest later, so up they go.

Seriously, scrambling for the ident button is the biggest problem I've had.
 

donv

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I guess my view is that if someone is in the front seat, they should generally be flying. If I'm just giving someone a ride, they should be in the back.