ADS-B and non towered airport operations - discussion

BB57

BB57

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Bob Turner posted this in the spin thread and I think it's worth a thread of its own:

"I fly with some really neat folks who have iPads tuned in to nearby N-numbers. One can truly get sucked in by the magic - but never forget - some of us are legally operating without ADS-B. You need eyeballs to see us."

Here's something to get the discussion started...

I was up this morning tooling about between various grass stripsin the area more or less describing a large circle around the paved strip regional, but still uncontrolled, airport in the area. I'd plan to hit a few more, but I noted a line of heavy rain and possible thunderstorms moving in above the overcast and toward my home airport (a single 1800 ft grass strip). One of the advantages of ADS-B (via Stratux and an iPad) is the ability to receive better weather information on a moving map display where it allows for improved situational awareness - although you need to be mindful of the 7 to 20 minute delay required to put the radar mosaic together and the additional minute delay in transmitting it.

Seeing the weather slowly marching my way, I cut the itinerary short and cut across the circle with a landing at the regional airport on one of its two paved runways (2/20 or 8/26). Runway 2/20 is longer and wider and is used almost all the time by the regional jets, regardless of the wind. The winds today were 270 at 8 with the wind picking up quickly to about 15 kts at 1000 ft.

I announced my intention about 7-8 miles out to enter the left downwind for runway 26 mid field, and proceeded to do so on a 45 degree angle. I made a downwind radio call and at that point a Tomahawk indicated he was turning left base for 26. Given that I was mid field already I was surprised by this as I should have seen him in front of me. After several seconds I did see him about 3 miles past the end of 26 banking as he executed his turn to the base leg. He called base for 26, and (not something I would normally do), I advised I had him in sight, since he was so ridiculously far out. At this point a regional jet announced he was 10 miles out, inbound for landing on runway 20, and asking the Tomahawk to not cross south of 20. A second voice in the Tomahawk conformed their position and intention to do a full stop short of 20. With no other (known) traffic behind me (but just having just visually cleared that airspace behind me on the downwind leg for 26) I slowed to 60 mph to prevent myself from getting similarly far downwind, while I watched this Tomahawk crawl up final into the head wind. The Tomahawk called "1/2 mile final" about a mile out, and when he finally passed my wing, I pushed over for 70 mph, announced my base leg and shortly there after my final leg about the time the Tomahawk had touched down 1000' or so down the runway. At this point the regional announced "short final 4 miles out". Given he was concerned about the simultaneous approaches on 26 and 20, I announced I had him sight and would hold well short of 20. I slowed to 60 mph on short final, put it down on the numbers and cleared the runway at the first taxiway, announcing down and clear of 26, with the regional jet landing about a minute later.

My takeaways from this were:

1) There was only 1 aircraft in the pattern or inbound for landing with ADS-B "out".
2) Still, my ADS-B "in" was useful for both weather information, for situational awareness, and faster visual spotting of the ADS-B out equipped aircraft, since I knew where to look for him relative to my nose.
3) ADS-B was useless for spotting the Tomahawk since of course it did not have ADS-B out.
4) The CTAF and Mark 1 Mod 0 human eyeballs were essential to ensure everyone knew where everyone else was at.
5) Had I or the Tomahawk been "no radio" I'd have certainly turned final in front of him, although to be fair it would have been at least two miles in front of him and I'd have been down and clear before he ever got within a mile of the airport. Still, he might have been uncomfortable.
6) The radio discipline was good with everyone making short calls with essential information and where needed confirmation of intentions.

Keeping it brief is important, particularly in this area, as there are number of airports using 122.8 and in any given pattern you can hear aircraft in at least 2 other patterns, and on some days you can hear them in 2-3 more. When someone starts getting long winded, they either start walking on transmissions they can't hear (when at a lower altitude than other aircraft) or they plug up the frequency and prevent other pilots from making calls when they should. The guys who make calls like, "yeah, uhhhh...we're....uh 15 miles to the northeast in a blue and white Seneca, and uhhh....we're inbound for the RNAV approach to runway 20. Uhhh...we'll be doing a missed approach and then returning to...yada,yada yada" are not helpful. They need to state something like "Seneca 1234 Papa, 15 miles north, RNAV runway 20 approach" and make relevant calls as they reach relevant points to keep people advised of current status and intentions.

I'm not sure why the Tomahawk went so far down wind. However, given there were two voices making calls from the aircraft, I'm almost certain it was a student with an instructor. Given that, I suspect the student was preoccupied with an unfamiliar before landing checklist and wanted or felt the need to complete it before turning base, and was probably blown further downwind by the wind which was significantly greater in the air than on the ground.
 
First, straight-in approaches are still discouraged at uncontrolled airports. I personally think the old upwind entry is best, but the AIM now supports only the 45 "outside" entry. AOPA still vaguely supports other entries, but not straight-ins.

And a 2 mile final is a "straight-in" approach, almost by definition (see AIM and the Pilot's Flying Handbook).

I realize that jets have different parameters, and maybe that is part of the 1500 foot pattern now reserved for multis.

I 100% agree with the idea that unicom (or whatever they call it this week) should be used to communicate, and not to blindly report without listening. The AIM specifies a very wordy callup every 15 feet (seemingly).

I call four miles out, on downwind, and on short approach. Unless there is a reason, I never report leaving a runway.

My callups are simple: "Red and blue champ four miles out on the 45 for 23 Hemet." Period. If someone asks where I am I always answer. Most students are taught never to answer.

And unlike most, I see absolutely nothing wrong with "Anybody in the pattern at Hemet?" I will answer that.

My Cubs do not have ADS-B, and I am careful to make sure everybody knows where I am and what color I am. And if my N-number is of interest to anybody, they are simply too close.
 
Bob, your first comment is spot on. Making FAA required or recommended radio calls is just "compliance". Compliance doesn't do much for anyone if the pilots in the pattern are not actually listening and keeping a mental picture of the traffic in their heads.

Sadly, I see ADS-B as a net loss in that regard as pilots will become more prone to looking for traffic on the display, rather than looking out the window. As an example, when I picked up my Citabria at a non tower airport in SC, I arranged for some dual to get current in one again shortly after take off a Citation reported he was descending 5 miles south of the field to the southwest (at my 3 o'clock). I lifted my wing tip slightly to spot him and there he was descending toward us with zero relative motion about a 1/2 mile away. His position report wasn't accurate, and he was more concerned with whatever was in the cockpit than he was with the non ADS-B equipped aircraft he was about to run over.

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I agree a 2 mile final is a straight in. I was taught to keep the pattern tight enough to be able to land on the runway if the engine quits. When I saw the Tomahawk about 3 miles out on "base" my first thought was "where is he going to land if the engine quits, it sure won't be on the field".

I still fly tight patterns that will ensure I make the runway or at least the field if the engine stops. But that causes problems in the environment the FAA has created:
- Following written checklists is viewed as a if not the major priority, even in a light aircraft when a short mnemonic is sufficient - and sometimes more effective. Tight patterns with short legs leave less time for checklists, and keep the pilot's head in the cockpit a greater percentage of the time. I'm not convinced that teaching/having a student or a weekend flyer operate his cub, champ, or 152 like a 737 is necessarily the best approach, especially at a non tower controlled airport.
- With a 150 hp Citabria that climbs well and based on an 1800 ft grass strip, takeoff and around the pattern to landing takes not much more than about three and a half minutes, and with a tight pattern the cross wind and base legs are very short. If I made calls on departure, on each leg, plus a call as I cleared the runway to taxi back, I'd be making a call about every 30-40 seconds. With the nearby airports also using 122.8, that would quickly create way too much clutter on the frequency. Like yourself, on landing I normally call on approach to the airport, on downwind, and on final. On takeoff, I'll announce my departure and departure direction or indicate I'm staying in the pattern.

I don't give aircraft color, as I'm not convinced it's all that useful. For example we have two blue and white Carbon Cubs on the field and we have three yellow cubs on the field - a J-3, a Carbon Cub, and a Legend. Get two cubs in the pattern that are the same color and it creates the potential to misidentify them. It's more useful to know there's a cub on downwind, rather than the Comanche we have on the field, as it tells me he's probably doing 60-65 mph, rather than 95-105 mph, and that the cub is probably closer in than the Comanche.

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I'm also a big fan of the upwind entry, and at small fields with no announced traffic in the pattern I still do them. For example, yesterday I did an upwind entry at Flannigan to get a look at the windsock, check how wet the runway was after the heavy rain the night before, to see if it had cattle on it - which is sometimes the case.
 
Not often someone agrees with my ancient opinions 100%. Does that mean this thread is done?

I agree color alone is not a good identifier, but "Yellow Cub" is a whole lot more valuable than "2 Yankee Victor, downwind." If there are two yellow Cubs in the pattern, a bit more creativity is in order - "second yellow Cub, downwind 23 Hemet."

Incorrect position reports are almost worse than no report. Our tower hates them.

And checklists - don't get me started. GUMPS is good enough for a light twin, shortened to GMS for a Citabria. We have a master CFI on our airport with 72 items on a Cessna checklist. If you cannot remember the master, mags, or starter button without a checklist, you will not fly that day, and the rest of us will be far, far safer!
 
My pre landing checklist is "carb heat".

We're already seeing the over dependence on ADS-B. I fly from inside the mode C veil of SeaTac. I'm seeing PLENTY of targets without ADS-B out. Even flew one in myself. ATC says nothing.

I'm still getting used to the "feature" of ADS-B in and so far it's great at identifying aircraft which have no conflict to resolve.

I'm not saying it will cause crashes, I'm just saying it's "not all that".

The color versus tail number thing is still in dispute? AIM says very specifically not to use colors. I personally don't care if you say blue and yellow Harley Davidson as long as you're actually where you say you are.

Having gone through a check ride for CFI reinstatement and had the discussion of pattern ops. A straight in might be a d*** move but it's legal. Right turns are not unless specifically on the sectional as such! You should never expect anything bigger than a PC-12 to fly the pattern

I enter on the 45 and use a tear drop from TPA +500 if I'm on the wrong side, also exactly per the good book.
 
I had to read that twice to see that we basically agree. I find that N numbers are useless to me in an uncontrolled environment. I want to know what I am looking for. I know what the AIM says - call ten miles out, repeat the airport twice each call, etc. But what I am interested in is not hitting anybody and not getting hit. To that end, precise position reports are essential, and become more so with more aircraft. Nobody else uses my idea, which is contrary to the AIM, but at least others know what to look for when I am there.

Radio congestion is now a serious problem. Minimize, with proper information.

ASF says what you and I say - "though permissible, a straight-in approach should only be used when you are certain there will be no conflict. Straight-ins should yield to other aircraft in the pattern." Emphasis is theirs, not mine. Bb's example indicates that both straight-in aircraft were aware of a conflict. I don't have a number for a maximum final for a normal pattern, but two miles is outside almost any computation.

Yes, shorter checklists are better. Mine does not have carb heat, because that is an rpm thing, not a landing thing. That's just opinion.
 
You and I have something else in common - my Decathlon has the same colors in almost the same arrangement - red on the bottom. My N-number is somewhat smaller . . .

The local terminal control is ignoring ADS-B. One of my buddies flies with his off. He was recommending that to others. I figure that may be a prescription for disaster, given that it is a regulation, not an AIM thing. Who knows when they will start tracking primary targets and asking questions - they sure track my J3 with serious precision.
 
So I personally use my N number. But again, I don't care if people use color or N number.
Why? Because the key wordsv are "anytown traffic, CITABRIA (garbled) mid field left downwind etc"
Not so different from (garbled) Citabria is it? You knew where to look and had some idea of their performance category

How many Citabrias are there in the pattern that haven't said a word yet on the past few minutes?

And really, when it comes down to it, I can still deal with "(garbled) (garbled) midfield left downwind " if that's where you are and not 1/2 mile on the 45

And do tell about carb heat. Inquiring minds
 
Agree.

I have never seen carb heat on a checklist. My Cub gets it applied below 2000 rpm, whether landing or not. Except taxi - where I am told it can be critical. SoCal doesn't seem to have a lot of carb ice. I have always wondered why a master switch would be on a checklist, and carb heat wouldn't be.

My Chief student, before his checkride, came up with a complicated checklist about 30 items long. Very creative. I convinced him it was way better to pay attention to flying, and only put stuff that was essential to safety in the checklist. Success! He is now towing banners up the Hudson.
 
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