Bruce 79 ECA recover

Clifford Daly

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With polytone I sprayed the entire citabria in temps from 50-90, dry in some areas and soaked it in others and it’s amazing how you can watch a wet area flatten out and make the dry area equal. Not 1 single spot of orange peel and compounded to an amazing shine. Not putting stewart’s down but poly fiber definitely seems easier and gives your more consistent results.
 

Bruce

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True but then it's not water born but solvent base, with water temp is very important. Just to share I started with lacquer paint which was simple to use just many coats with sanding, then on the the enamel with hardeners, then on to the 2 part epoxy paint, then the base coat with clear now we are into water each one has a learning curve but with the environmental people going nuts I know the auto has gone water base I know the first time I shot base with clear I had terrible orange pealing in the clear, then I found out the correct air pressure for it was not the same as the base and this was shot in the outdoors early morning which I have done many times but no one told me how much bugs like the smell of the clear... Dooo.

The truth is we each have our preferences and this is what makes America Great and flying so much fun.
 

Clifford Daly

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Just giving an opinion. You have two people who have recovered multiple airplanes and both said Stewart’s has its issues still. Aviation stuff is different than the auto industry in many ways and is hard to compare for fabric airplanes. Maybe in 50 years it’ll be better than solvents but it’s like removing paint with water vs chemicals, we all know what’s better!
 

Bob Turner

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I have seen beautiful test panels. I have not seen an aircraft finished well at all. Looking forward to it.
 

Bruce

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There was a Taylor craft at the show looked great I am also eager to see how well I can do, it has been over 30 years since I tried fabric.
 

Bob Turner

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Clifford - our instruction Cub is Poly Tone, and looks awful. What compound did you use, and did you machine buff it?

On the Stewarts, my buddy is making a pilgrimage to see the guru Wednesday. He uses ever so slightly different techniques.
 

Clifford Daly

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I used “3m Finesse-It II Machine Polish”

I used a soft foam finishing pad and used a very low speed. Went over the hard spots once and hand rubbed any other spots that needed the attention. I’m sure I could have rubbed it out even more for a better shine but I was afraid of going too far.
 

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Taildrager

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Clifford - our instruction Cub is Poly Tone, and looks awful. What compound did you use, and did you machine buff it?

On the Stewarts, my buddy is making a pilgrimage to see the guru Wednesday. He uses ever so slightly different techniques.
Have you got any thing to report on the Stewart system top coat ? It seems very hard to find any one that does not had a bad experience with it .
 

Bruce

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I have hit a road block and life so the plane is on back burner I haven’t. Ordered the color and was ready to start covering, but have not made any progress in the last 3weeks and I hope to get back to it before AirVenture. When I get back to it I will post it. As for finish I met some guys at Sun and Fun and we got to shoot some paint and think it will look good. the thing that took me the longest to do was removing the old glue off I had give my hands some time to heal after a couple of days. So all the control surfaces and wings are ready to cover. I am hopping to cover and prime then do the fuse lodge onece it is all ready I will start the paint.
 

Bob Turner

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My buddy is painting Cub surfaces Stewart. I had him touch up my rudder and do a test panel.

He is getting better. He bought each and every thing Stewart said - compressor, gun, measuring stuff, mask, white suit - and built a really sophisticated spray booth. He is just starting to get good results.

My impression is that, when the stuff flows, it accentuates flaws, rather than filling them in. He is still getting "orange peel" in most areas. But he is progressing!

If it were mine, I would wet-sand #400 until dead smooth before final coat. Stewart does not recommend wet sanding.

I will never be good enough - or OCD enough - to use their current top coat. My buddy will be.

Good thing - I get to sign the 337.
 

Bruce

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One thing he might try is not as much paint each coat, I have painted with many other paints Laqure enamel clear coat, if u spray more than a fog and I mean like what I would call a tac coat every coat before you have the color saturation then on each coat wait till it dries to a tac where you touch it to bare skin and it is sticky but no paint transfer you will get bubbling from water drying and trying to come through the paint. The final coat is wet for the gloss. I plan on having a test panel on the side wile I am applying the paint. I painted some at sun and fun and was amazed how slow you must go between coats and the more humidity or lowered temp the slower longer the wait (never shoot below 55 I think) and lots of clean air. They recommended to have a 25 foot run on the air hose from compressor then the dryer then line to paint gun. I have never done that and always had my dryer by compressor.he explained at this class that the air has not had time to cool down and drop the moister good luck and please share if these tips help as we are all learning the water born paint stuff. Also where is he based no better teacher than experience.
 

Bartman

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Hi guys,

I missed how active this thread was and was just reading through the posts.

So far I've painted two wing panels from bare fabric, top-coated over aerothane on two ailerons, and top coated two sets of struts. The first wing panel has great color but the second one has a much better finish.

With Stewart System, the base "fog" coats are very important to create color saturation and to create the correct base texture. It's part color, part texture. If the fog coats are put on too heavy with each coat, the paint will not leave behind the necessary texture to hold the final, heavier, top coat without sagging. So it's a combination of the fog coats achieving full color coverage, the correct "1000 grit" texture, and they have to be sticky to the touch without transferring color to your knuckle when you touch them. After a day of painting my knuckles all have a spot of paint on them from testing each coat for readiness for the next coat.

My wings were done over the winter with two kerosene heaters in the garage, one in the paint booth and one in the area just outside the paint booth. I also warmed the house to about 74 degrees and then drew warm air from the house as the exhaust fan kept the paint booth clear. If I had the temp in the mid 70's I was lucky and it was usually right around 70. About five gallons of tap water was poured on the floor before each session to bring the humidity up and to keep dust down. The added humidity helps the paint to flow out a little better as I understand it.

It's really important to check your surfaces before starting each next phase of painting. The water borne covering will build up over a speck like Bob said, accentuating flaws. 320 grit sandpaper and red scotch brite pads are your friends! As is compressed air, maybe a vacuum with a clean brush head, those lint-free shop rags, and tack rags specific to water based paints. The EkoFill isn't as durable as the primer and top coats so don't sand over hard points, use the scotch brite pads. I would sand the open areas then use the scotch brite pads to work over the tapes and other hard spots. The primer is more durable, as is the EkoPoly but you still have to be careful over the fabric rivets. If you get the surface clean and work out any nubs then the next coat looks great. I didn't iron the tape edges as aggressively as the videos suggest, but definitely did use the iron to improve problem edges.

The trick is to keep everything clean, keep dust down during spraying, spray the fog coats thin so that the texture stays rough, let the paint set to tacky but not transferring when touched (if it dries beyond that, stop, let it fully dry then start from surface sanding/cleaning/etc and more fog coats before proceeding to top coat), and then the top coat has to have that three second sheen as you spray. It takes more paint then you'll expect to get that top coat to gloss but when it dries it doesn't seem as thick. It's a leap of faith to some degree, you feel like you're over-spraying but when you're done it looks awesome and doesn't appear too heavy.

I had some success re-spraying the top coat over areas that didn't gloss up but I was adding that extra paint right after I had sprayed those areas so they were still fresh/wet. Go slow and be methodical, if the gun and your technique aren't giving you the three-second gloss then open up your flow valve a little more, check the pressure is enough to atomize the paint, maybe slow down your motion a bit, increase your overlap, whatever it takes but don't just keep painting without making adjustments on the fly. If you do a few feet of wing and see you didn't get the gloss you can go right over it when it's still wet and the gloss will come. Also, there were spots that didn't gloss and so I sprayed some more paint on, they took their time but laid down and glossed as the paint flowed out and set.

If you get it just right it's glorious but remember, clean, light fog coats, and don't spray the next coat until the tack is just right (was twenty to thirty minutes or more at 70 degrees).

Keep in mind, the videos that show shorter wait times between coats were made with an older formulation of the coating which had a much shorter pot life. The current coatings have pot lives in the hours so don't rush each coat, wait for the tack to set and for there to be no transfer of paint but don't let it dry beyond that before spraying on the next layer!

And tell Andy I said hi when you speak to him, he's extremely helpful!
 
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Bruce

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Very well said and like you I review this site often, as for the paint application I am waiting for my life to slow down so I can spend a full day or two in a row because it is time consuming part of what you pay for at a shop labor is most expensive part of this work. I will also say when I have painted rushing the work is usually why it turns ugly then by time you re work because of lack of patients it cost twice as much in materials and time.
 

Bob Turner

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That's why I love dope. Hose it on, wet sand, compound. In your driveway, with an ancient Binks.

A body shop did a water base repair on my also ancient Mustang convertible. Drop-dead gorgeous. I suppose the key is that's all these guys do. It's like welding - do it enough and you really get good.
 

Bartman

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That's why I love dope. Hose it on, wet sand, compound. In your driveway, with an ancient Binks.

A body shop did a water base repair on my also ancient Mustang convertible. Drop-dead gorgeous. I suppose the key is that's all these guys do. It's like welding - do it enough and you really get good.
Let's see how my fuselage and tail look before we pass judgement! 😂😂😂

I am optimistic! Just did a second wash/degrease with EkoClean so it is ready to be masked and final sanded before the base coat.
 

Taildrager

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It sounds like the only thing missing is the witch doctor doing a dance during the spraying.
 

Bartman

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Nahhhhhh! You just have to get the technique worked out then it's fine. Did I mention the water clean-up is a nice bonus?

That dope sounds nice too but my wife would kill me the first time the odors wafted into the house.
 

Bob Turner

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I think there will be some really good Stewart finishes showing up. I cannot wait to see one.

I do get spectacular patches wet-sanding the Eko-fill. I can make the pinked edges disappear. But the top coat is either dope or rattle can. Lately I have gone back to Stitts, since it takes a half-hour to stir the Eko-fill.

Still, I think Stewart is onto something. They need a top coat for amateurs like me.
 

Bruce

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When we were at Sun and fun and I took my wife to the ploy fiber booth standing five feet away we were fumed the next day at the Stewart’s booth no odor to speak of and since I’m working in the basement well you know which system we went with. And your right about the clean up part what a plus.
 

Bruce

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Finally back to the plane, now to remember how to do fabric, so far only had to redo one aileron but not real happy with how it turned out. More practice then on to the wings.
 

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