Ceconite vs Superflite Tapes

Bartman

Bartman

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Just curious if there's any consensus opinion out there about Ceconite vs Superflite tapes. I was running low and ordered Ceconite 102 2" straight tape from Aircraftspruce but when I went to use it it was different and didn't seem as easy to use as the stuff I had been using which came from ACA.

Chad said they use Superflite, straight pre-shrunk 102 tapes. I thought they were technically the same but I like the Superflite tape better.

Am I crazy? :yesss:
 
Well, the edges of the Superflite tape seem to lay down more naturally and the tape seems to wipe clean of the adhesive more easily. The Ceconite tape edges have to be ironed down and even then they seem to have an edge to them. Maybe it's the way they cut the straight tapes? idk
 
Both are straight, 102 weight tapes. The Superflite tape is pre-shrunk, I don't think the Ceconite tape is pre-shrunk. When I touched the edge of a Ceconite tape with a 250 degree iron today it sucked the edge in pretty quickly. :mad: I was trying to see if the edge would lay flat with a little extra heat since 225 degrees didn't do it.

If I had to guess, I'm thinking maybe they cut the Ceconite tape with a hot tool of some sort. When I tried cutting reinforcement patches (see what I did there?) with a 700 degree soldering iron, the material had an edge along the cut line that wouldn't lay flat. Just a guess.
 
The Superflite fabric and tapes have a finer weave than the Polyfiber fabric and as such will definitely react differently to paints, glues and how well they attach to the underlying surface.
When you write "straight" tape I was assuming you were talking about straight vs. Bias tape. The straight tapes are for straight runs and bias tapes are made to go around curves and corners...
I see now what you are calling "straight" 102 tapes are actually non-pinked edge tapes. Is there a reason you aren't you using pinked edge tapes? Is this an ACA thing?
Chris
 
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Yes, ACA uses straight tapes at the factory. The fabric detail drawing shows pinked or straight tapes and I just used straight to keep with the new plane look I guess. Remember, I'm crazy. lol

But you can see in the pics how the edges look different, right? It more pronounced in person
 
Bob Turner said:
Don’t know why, but I see way more non-pinked tapes pulling up.
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A non-pinked tape has no resistance torsionally. Much like paper or cardboard a straight tear ontinues until it comes to a place where the tear can't continue. A straight edge tape will easily peel back until it has to change direction. Also, a pinked 45° edge has close to double the gluing area of an equal length straight tape. Back in the day (dope) the tapes were covered with 6-8 coats of paint and weren't expected to last 20 years.
If you're liking the straight tape look and it's working for you then by all means continue. But, having done a few covering and repair jobs over the years the difference in the straight tapes vs. pinked tapes is night and day...both in ease of application and longevity.!

Chris (who has never been a fan of the factory cover and paint...)
 
From the poly-fiber manual;

“PINKED TAPES? Why can’t I use straight-edge tapes?”

OK, let’s set the record straight. During WWI, the edges of aircraft tapes were unravelled by hand to leave a crude fringe. The idea was to give a nice transition from fabric to threads to promote adhesion when they were doped in place. But unravelling the edges of the tapes was a real pain and it took a lot of time. So they got smarter and figured that if tapes were cut with pinked edges, you get the same good adhesion with less labor. Pinking also kept the cotton from unravelling. So pinked tapes came into vogue in the twenties. Straight-edge tapes came only with the introduction of polyester fabrics. Since polyester could be heat slit, it was an easy way to make a tape. The problem with straight-edge polyester tapes is the ridge formed at the edge when they’re heat slit. That ridge gives no transition to the tape and, in fact, promotes peeling over the years. Pinked tapes have 41% more edge area to help adhesion. They’re cut with a knife that leaves no ridge and, by golly, they are historically correct.
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Ray Stitts had trouble at first cutting pinked tapes. Don't know how he fixed it, but I was one of his first customers for pinked tapes.

I use Wiss pinking shears. They have to be sharpened routinely.

One guy grabbed a pair and cut sand paper with them. After that, no amount of sharpening ever fixed them.
 
Bob Turner said:
Ray Stitts had trouble at first cutting pinked tapes. Don't know how he fixed it, but I was one of his first customers for pinked tapes.

I use Wiss pinking shears. They have to be sharpened routinely.

One guy grabbed a pair and cut sand paper with them. After that, no amount of sharpening ever fixed them.
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I would have killed 'em!
Having the proper tools helps the process of taping and reinforcing patches (following the moderators lead here) go smoother and makes attaining a nice finished product easier.
My must haves were always:
Good FABRIC shears. Not scissors, shears! The tip of a good fabric shear will cut a single piece of thread without having to even hold onto the thread. It will cut fabric cleanly without damaging the fabric edge.
Next is a rotary Florian pinking shear. You can make any shape piece of fabric easily...round inspection ring doilies, strut opening reinforcement, etc. Last but not least is a good pinking shear for long straight cuts.
Having at least the Fabric shears and the pinking shear are what I consider mandatory...the rotary pinker is simply nice to have.
20210719_162657.webp
Pinking shears for patches...
20210618_110658.webp
$100.00 worth of cutting tools speeds the job along.

Chris
 
Chris, I've been using my IA friend's rotary pinking shear but, like you said, my results on long straight cuts could have been better. When the fabric work started I took my two pairs of fabric scissors (not sure if they're shears, hmmm) to a professional sharpening shop and holy cow (!!!) what a difference it made! One pair I got in a collection of RC stuff that someone gave me, the other was in the bottom of a dumpster I ordered for a remodeling project but having them professionally sharpened made them like new.

Just to keep the fabric knowledge flowing, which I happen to find really interesting, here's what Stewart Systems says about fabrics. I definitely noticed that the Superflite tape lets you adjust your line left or right as you go where the Ceconite tape has to be dead on from the start. If you try to adjust the Ceconite tape it lifts on the side you're adjusting to and has to be ironed down when it's dry.

Stewart Systems is certified for use with all certified Dacron/Polyester aircraft fabric. Currently there are three brand names of Dacron/Polyester aircraft fabric available: Superflite, Ceconite, and PolyFiber. All of the technical specifications for Ceconite and PolyFiber are identical and they are produced by the same company, Consolidated Coatings. For our purposes, Ceconite and PolyFiber are identical, therefore out of those two, we only carry Ceconite.
The main difference between Ceconite and Superflite is the thread count in the weave. Superflite 102 fabric has a higher thread count and therefore a finer weave and is a little lighter. This allows Superflite fabric to be worked around curves and tight areas easier. Ceconite has a lower thread count and is a little heavier and therefore has a stiffer characteristic. Some people like this because it will lay straighter on a large area such as a wing or fuselage, and it has a stiffer feel when complete. In general, we prefer Superflite fabric.
Both fabrics come in three different weights. 104 Light is uncertified and is only legal on ultralights, experimental aircraft, gliders, and as a laminate over plywood on certified aircraft. 102 Medium is used on the vast majority of GA aircraft and is the most popular fabric we sell. 101 Heavy is generally used on larger, faster aircraft, acrobatic aircraft, and bush planes.
It is legal to upgrade any aircraft to heavier fabric if desired, and many people do for durability. However, if upgrading to a heavier fabric, be careful when shrinking as the heavier fabric may pull hard enough to distort or damage the airframe. It may not be necessary to shrink all the way to 350° in that case. The weight difference to upgrade to the next heavier fabric is generally about 3-4 lbs on a typical GA aircraft and may be well worth the extra weight for durability. It is also common practice to use 101 heavy fabric only on areas of excessive wear such as the belly and horizontal stabilizers.
*We do not recommend using Ceconite 101 with our process. We have found that our products do not penetrate it well enough. Superflite 101 works perfectly.
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Your post above made me go back and re-read what I typed...I was wrong in post #7 when I said Ceconite had the finer weave. I meant "Superflite has a finer weave than Polyfiber..."
I knew what I meant but it's not what I typed. My proof reader has been summarily executed. Sorry.
As to the Shears vs. Scissors question I don't know if there is really any difference in nomenclature between the two...more of a tomato/tomoto, patch/reinforcement, redhead/crazy kind of thing probably.

Chris
 
I use Wiss pinking shears. They are not hardened steel, and about twice each covering job they must be sharpened. That is done with a fine file and a vise. It can be dressed up with a whetstone.
I bet I have done that fifty times with my two pair. It always results in a clean cut over the entire blade.

The third pair - the ones my buddy cut sand paper with - won't sharpen. I may try a professional, or I may pitch them.

My German friends say "Zeess."
 
Beautiful shiny 2003 Super Decathlon in the shop this week. I didn't get a chance to talk to the attending mechanic, but I note that many tapes are showing signs of crazing and/or release. The rest of the finish is simply spectacular.

Mine was covered in 1992 with nitrate/butyrate, and while it doesn't have that "wet look" of urethane, my tapes look really good in comparison.
 
Bob Turner said:
Beautiful shiny 2003 Super Decathlon in the shop this week. I didn't get a chance to talk to the attending mechanic, but I note that many tapes are showing signs of crazing and/or release. The rest of the finish is simply spectacular.

Mine was covered in 1992 with nitrate/butyrate, and while it doesn't have that "wet look" of urethane, my tapes look really good in comparison.
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I've seen many instances of tapes letting go on Citibrthon aircraft over the years. Mostly on the belly and the bottom of the right wing next to the fuselage where the propwash pummles the fabric during slow flight and acro flight.

Chris
 
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