Champ Eastern NY/NE PA Champ owners?

V

Vulin

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Joined
Jul 16, 2021
Messages
9
Location
Lancaster, PA
Looking at a champ for sale on Barnstormers. 7AC A75 Champ Went up to look at it yesterday and everything looks orderly. The only two things are the engine only has 81 hours in the past 12 years. It's kept in a climate controlled hangar, so Im not overly concerned. And being 6'4 270, the seating is good but not perfect. I know the seats are not adjustable, but I think it's something I would just have to get used to. All my tailwheel time is in a citabria which was slightly better.

Anyone in the area that wouldn't mind giving it a second look? Im a first time buyer who is working with a budget, so Im trying to be cautious.
 
How was the 81 hours flown and how was the plane stored? Did someone start / run it now and then, or was it totally not flown for a good stretch? In that case did they change the oil to heavy storage oil? Also, I presume they've now run it: in which case a pre-buy on the engine isn't going to reveal too much. If they haven't run it, than a borescope would show an indication of how much corrosion is going on. In either case the best way to assess would be to remove a cylinder ....
 
Where does it say $14,000? The listing says $29,000, no?

If 81 hours over 12 years were distributed evenly it would be just under seven hours per year. That wouldn't be so bad if it were flown every two or three months for long enough to warm up the oil and dry out any moisture that got under the fabric. Were annuals listed every year and, if the were, what were the total times listed in each annual? Is the owner able to explain the nature of the 81 hours in 12 years?

Lastly, at 240 lbs, what is the W&B like if you want to take a friend flying and try to go somewhere? I'm not familiar with 7AC weight and balance parameters.
 
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The owner is a AG Pilot. I believe he bought it just to have a plane that wasn't a AG plane. It sits in a hangar at his residence. Annuals have been completed every year, I would have to go through the log books to see what he put on per year. Price listed is indeed $29K.

As for W&B. It will basically be a single person plane. I could fit my daughter, but that's the extent of it. I am considering a cub as their useful is higher, but then it might be sacrilegious to mention that here.
 
by all means, feel free to bring up the Cub! I was looking for a Cub when I bought my 7ECA, I could go on and on about why I ended up with the 7ECA but I don't want to hijack your thread (unless you ask :) ).
 
Ha feel free. Im open to any input. My budget (under 30K) is likely not helping. I'm finding a lot of decent restored aircraft, but they were restored 10-12 years ago and have barely flown. I will say... I got into a cub easier than a Champ or Citabria.
 
Don't tell anyone but I still love flying a Cub. The Citabria has everything a Cub has but they're considered upgrades on a Cub where they're standard equipment on a 7ECA like disc brakes, shoulder harnesses, heavy lift struts, metal prop, electrical system, interior/exterior lights, longer range fuel, intercom, starter, etc. and where some of these things are possible with a Cub, they're usually via wires zip tied and dangling in the cabin or across the floor. When I found out you can fly with the door off of a Citabria, I didn't look back and bought my 7ECA.

There are a few later Champ models that came out in the run up to the first Citabrias and even the early oleo strut landing gear Citabrias are cheaper than a good Cub with clean paperwork but you'll get so much more.

Often, a short/free wanted ad on Barnstormers.com will shake loose a plane that the owner would sell but hasn't listed yet. The price is usually more reasonable than what is currently listed for sale. Of the listings there now, there are a couple of Champs I'd call about to see if the owners can come down to your budget. Champs are almost double what they were a few years ago so there's got to be wiggle room in some of those listings. If you can get a good answer to the 81 hours in 12 years question, that plane you're looking at might not be a bad option but it's expensive at $29k compared to the others.
 

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I'm not a fan of top overhauls on high time engines so you'd have to ask for more details on this one

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if you go by the theory it's cheaper to buy someone else's work instead of doing it yourself, this might be a bit overpriced but it's damn nice. doesn't hurt to call and drop a low offer, he might be willing to discuss it

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If it were up to me and a higher budget I would have a Citabria. That's what I got my endorsement in and I loved every minute of it. Does everything I need a plane to do.

Ill try a wanted ad, hopefully that stirs up something. I got a response on FB about a cub, but it needs some work for 28k. Where the 7AC doesnt need anything. Talking with the owner of the Champ he did say he would take 27k.
 
$28K ought to buy a pristine, award-winning 7AC with 90 hp. I just flew a $14K Chief in very good shape with a 350 hr C-85-12. Pretty nice airplane for the price!
 
If local pleasure flights are your sole objective, a champ / cub will do nicely. But you should also think where you aim to be a little bit down the road. Regardless of what you'll buy, maintaining an aircraft is not cheap, and surprises will come up. You want an airplane that you'll feel good about putting money into. I bought my 7ECA for $35K, knew I was going to put ~$20K into avionics and around $5K for belly recover, but didn't expect to be putting another $ 20K (didn't track) into new cylinders, carb, wiring, alternator, seats, spades, seat belts, etc. Learned a lot through the process, and enjoyed doing the work with my mechanic, but now I would have a totally different eye / mentality when assessing a plane to purchase. Still, I feel good about my plane - have a well sorted IFR equipped cross country plane to do aerobatics in!
 
Im really looking for time building. I would love to have a IFR Citabria, but I cant afford it.

In the future Ill maybe look for something else. But Im going on the mindset of less is more. If you dont have it, it cant break. I also wont feel the need to upgrade or modify components. If the old timers built time in them, then Ill build time in one.
 
The folks with the Chiefs will disagree with you. While their $18K Chief was down for repairs (not related to purchase condition) they looked at and rejected several Chiefs below $20 grand. The $14K Chief was purchased in 2021. Both did a transcontinental right after purchase.
Not my cup of tea, but an economical choice. Do not buy a Champ or Chief for over $25K unless it is pristine and they give you a 200 hour warranty on the engine.
Opinion. Cubs cost twice as much in the same condition.
 
By the way, a pristine 7AC with O-200 and new cover went through here at the $28K mark. That one was worth it, and I couldn’t get any of the locals to buy it. It went to Houston.
 
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