Grove wheels and brakes

Eric,

A newer parts manual might have the numbers but they might be listed as American Champion numbers instead of Grove numbers. If you're trying to go direct to Grove for parts, they can't sell them to you. As a supplier, their parts are only legal if they're sold to you by ACA and I'm sure ACA wouldn't want Grove selling direct to ACA's customers anyway.

If that wasn't why you were asking, I apologize for being presumptuous! 😁
 
Are the axles and bolt plates the same from the days of oleo struts? I did a conversion on a 7AC that used Grove parts from one end to the other. Field-approved.
 
Well ..... here's my thought. The Grove website lists their p/n wheels/stats/pricing. Aircraft Spruce sells them by Grove p/n. If I knew the Grove p/n used by ACA, I could possibly order from Spruce and install them under a field approval. The standard Cleveland 40-28D / 30-19A parts are horribly expensive.
 
Doubt you can get a field approval for something the factory has approved.

Something to think about: we set up a patent system in the late 1700s to encourage - and compensate - invention. These days a patent is good for 17 years, and then the invention can be used without royalties.

But the FAA has set up a forever system - even longer than the incredibly long copright protection period - invent something for an aircraft, get it approved, and an aircraft owner is forced to buy it from the person who got it approved.

Grove did not get these components approved - ACA did. In effect, ACA has a forever patent. If you want to run a Grove experimental wheel, you will be an outlaw - even though it is the identical part. I - dentical!

Mostly opinion.
 
Bob Turner said:
Doubt you can get a field approval for something the factory has approved.

Something to think about: we set up a patent system in the late 1700s to encourage - and compensate - invention. These days a patent is good for 17 years, and then the invention can be used without royalties.

But the FAA has set up a forever system - even longer than the incredibly long copright protection period - invent something for an aircraft, get it approved, and an aircraft owner is forced to buy it from the person who got it approved.

Grove did not get these components approved - ACA did. In effect, ACA has a forever patent. If you want to run a Grove experimental wheel, you will be an outlaw - even though it is the identical part. I - dentical!

Mostly opinion.
Click to expand...
 
Seems your set on Grove but i still could help you out with a set of Cleveland 40-28D and 30-19A’s from my 7gcbc. Just sayin.
 
I suspect there is some wiggle room here. From the Grove Website:

INSTALLING GROVE PARTS ON FAA CERTIFICATED AIRCRAFT

The FAA requires that any part installed on a FAA certified aircraft be FAA approved AND have installation eligibility.

Approved parts eligible for installation include parts listed on the aircraft’s Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS), Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) or parts with Parts Manufacturer Approval (PMA).

Parts can also be approved for installation on certificated aircraft through “Field Approval” from the FAA, typically through the local Flight Standards District Office (FSDO).

The FAA also approves parts through their Technical Standard Order (TSO) program. These are standard parts such as tires, wheels, brakes, etc., each of which must pass a rigorous testing protocol to meet prescribed airworthiness standards. Parts with TSO authorization have met FAA standards, but do not have installation eligibility. In order to legally install these TSO parts on a certificated aircraft, they must also have FAA Field Approval or be listed on the aircraft’s Type Certificate or Supplemental Type Certificate.

The FAA can give Field Approval for any part, but they are more inclined to grant approval when the part to be installed has met the TSO standards (proven to be airworthy) and is listed as having TSO authorization (TSOA).

In the case of older aircraft, type certificated prior to January 1, 1980 and having a gross weight of 12,500 pounds or less, FAA Advisory Circular 23-27 §7 (b)(4) states that an approved part (one with TSOA) that has previously been approved by STC or Field Approval can be installed by Field Approval on like-type aircraft using the previous Field Approval or STC data as the basis for approval. Click here for link to FAA AC 23-27 for more information.
Click to expand...

Grove wheels meet TSO. If the current ACA type certificate lists Grove wheels, then I question whether it matters where they were purchased.

I would call Grove. If anyone knows the magic incantation to install their products, they would.
 
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The interesting thing is that the Grove wheels are NOT listed anywhere on the current TCDS, which hasn't been revised since 2011. I have found that the FAA is more likely to field approve an item that is currently used on a production airplane and that wishes to be installed on a previous airplane model for which there was no approval.
In my case, the decision to research the Grove wheels, was made because new 40-28D/30-19A units are horribly expensive and there are no used Cleveland units available. The only other airplane to use the 40-28D wheels were the early model Cherokees. The 30-19A brake is strictly ACA.
 
I would think the problem is the data tag. You would need either the Cleveland tag or the ACA tag. Grove could get a PMA, but their biggest customer may have politely asked them not to.
But suppose the tag fell off?
If you take, for instance, the 30-19 caliper, put it next to the Grove, peel the tags off both, then shuffle, you won’t be able to tell which is which.
There are some subtle differences between PMA and TSO. Don’t ask me . . .
 
A DER can approve installations of those wheels and brakes. But that's who you START the process with.
The Grove master cylinders are already called out on drawing 4-1624 as a substitute for the Cleveland units.
The Grove TSO'ed wheels and brake units have been installed via 337 on many birds. Form-Fit-Function.
One of the reasons Grove is reluctant to sell to just anyone is in the past owners slapped Grove wheels, brakes, etc. on their planes and THEN sought approval from their IA for the installation. Because IA's are spring-loaded to say Hell No the owner then gripes to Grove for selling "unapproved" parts...then the FAA wants to know how Grove parts (TSO'ed or not) got installed on a certified bird...the end result is more of a headache than it's worth.
The fact that American Champion Aircraft refuses to update the multiple TCDS it holds is a matter for a different post/rant. 🙄.

Chris
 
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