Hello everyone - '69 7ECA new member

[volvo164]

Hi everyone
Acquired 7505F, a '69 7ECA, last December. Since then did quite a bit of work on it:
- New belly stringers and fabric (stringer were broken)
- New Lycoming cylinder
- Avionics upgrade to IFR: 2 Garmin G5s, Garmin GNC355, + some other instrument changes to get IFR cert
- New Plane Power alternator, and upgrade wiring as per ACA service letter
Plane already had ACA metal wings
Fabulous plane to both fly and work on. Resuming aerobatics instruction (previously trained a bit in Super D's)
I'm splitting time in PA (KOQN) and MA (6B6) - and tour around quite a bit. The 7ECA is not fast but has very long legs, and great useful load. See pic with my CarryMe bikes - these bikes are great, and I can easily put 2 of them in the back, for me & my passenger to enjoy touring around.
Looking to meet some members in the North East.
Laszlo

 

[Helo pilot]

Good luck with your new airplane. Keep us posted.

 

[volvo164]

Since some asked about my IFR panel, here are some pics of it. Note that turn coordinator, VSI, airspeed, and altimeter must be kept per STC, so to make room in the low panel, I swapped the tach to a 2 1/4 gauge, and swapped mechanical G meter for the GT-50 electronic G meter / Clock / V meter. Since the plane came with the stratus transponder and ADS-B in, I went with the iFly portable GPS, which is the perfect size. The downside is that it's not linked to the Garmin GNC355 - but regardless, I'm finding this to be a good setup for having access to charts, weather, traffic, etc. on the iFly (without need for an iPad) and managing the route / approach on the Garmin.

 

[Bruce]

Very nice panel, I’m having a g5 and 375 installed in my Warrior this month it is in shop now. Have you shot any approaches ?

 

[volvo164]

Very nice panel, I’m having a g5 and 375 installed in my Warrior this month it is in shop now. Have you shot any approaches ?

I have under the hood (only used it in IMC to go through layers so far). It's a super stable plane, and the slow speed makes approaches easy. The other IFR platform I fly is an A36 with Garmin G500 / GTN750 - so it's an easy transition for me. They flying part and GNC355 (which is same as the 375) is straightforward. I do rely on the iFly GPS for planning, reviewing charts, briefing the approach, etc., so I do wish it was interconnected, avoiding the need to enter the flight plan / modifications to flight plan, twice. But it's fine, much better than an iPad on my knee (which I tried, but got me disoriented easily). Having everything close at hand, in line of sight, is critical to be able to fly without an autopilot in IMC.
I should add another benefit if these new GPSs / G5s, and it's VFR approaches at night! I fly into some very dark airports, with trees on the approach. The VFR 3 degree glide slopes are really useful: I first fly the glide slope during the day to verify that indeed I won't come close to hitting anything, but then it's reassuring to use at night, knowing that I'm centered on the correct glide path to the runway.

 

[kswans1314]

Why would the turn coordinator be required if the G5 can be used for primary turn and bank? I only ask because I have a g5 HSI going in and planned to remove my broken electric turn, DG and AI. I had planned the stratus esg to replace my current flakey skybeacon/narco set up. Since every shop in existence seems to be months out from being able to work on my plane I have since tossed around the idea of adding a second G5 and going with a GNX 375 and an IFR cert for the heck of it.

 

[Bob Turner]

Don't think a turn coordinator is required. There is an FAR somewhere, and it may require turn rate info, but there are other ways to get that info.

Do let us know how to get these fine aircraft IFR certified. I will do mine in a heartbeat.

 

[volvo164]

It's required because of the Garmin STC, not because of FARs (for example, a VSI isn't required for IFR per FARs). But Garmin states that the G5's can only replace 1 instrument each, and then it spells out which instruments must be retained: if the G5's will be the AI and DG, then turn coordiantor and VSI must be kept. You can decide if the 1st G5 is replacing your AI, then it can't be a replacement for your turn coordinator. If you AI is not broken, then you have the option to keep the AI and have the 1st G5 "replace" your turn coordinator. The second G5 needs to be your DG. At least that's how the shop I worked with interpreted it (as did I reading the STC).

 

[kswans1314]

Interesting. Do you have a copy of the STC or number to look up. I would like to give it a read. My single G5 install will be replacing all my dying vacuum instruments (VFR only for now) and integrate to my aera660. So (I have to brush up on the FARs) but if vacuum driven DG AI and turn coordinator are already gone when it comes time to adding the second g5 and nav/comm I assume your conclusion would also be that I would need to add some type of electric AI. Maybe AV-20 or the like..

 

[volvo164]

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-10_09.pdf

Read section 2: limitations

 

[Big Ed]

Very cool. I wish there was a reasonable path to do something similar with my Decathlon.

 

[B737jenkins]

I thought the Scout was the only model type certified for IFR flight???? I think Dale at the factory told me that when I was shopping for ours.

I would love to make ours IFR capable!

 

[Bob Turner]

With the prices for new ones, you’d think they would add it. They’d probably restrict it to metal spar ships.

 

[volvo164]

I thought the Scout was the only model type certified for IFR flight???? I think Dale at the factory told me that when I was shopping for ours.

I would love to make ours IFR capable!

I think I mentioned up front, Champion's (i.e. before Bellanca) were not restricted to VFR only. I can't find a manual online to reference, but the flight manual (at least from my 1969 year) states in Section C, Operating Limitations: "With standard equipment, your Citabria is approved for VFR flight, day or night. Approved for IFR flight requires additional optional equipment." Bellanca onwards, they state VFR only. The flight manual applies to the 7ECA, 7GCAA, 7GCBC, and 7KCAB - so all those Champion models are IFR capable, if equipped with all FAA mandated IFR instruments & navigation. I can't find a Scout manual online - can someone confirm it's limitations?

 

[Big Ed]

I think I mentioned up front, Champion's (i.e. before Bellanca) were not restricted to VFR only. I can't find a manual online to reference, but the flight manual (at least from my 1969 year) states in Section C, Operating Limitations: "With standard equipment, your Citabria is approved for VFR flight, day or night. Approved for IFR flight requires additional optional equipment." Bellanca onwards, they state VFR only. The flight manual applies to the 7ECA, 7GCAA, 7GCBC, and 7KCAB - so all those Champion models are IFR capable, if equipped with all FAA mandated IFR instruments & navigation. I can't find a Scout manual online - can someone confirm it's limitations?

It may have to do with which set of regulations were in effect when the aircraft was certificated. As I understand it, until 1952 small aircraft were governed by CAR 4a. After that some were covered by CAR 3. 14 CFR part 23 (aka FAR part 23) went into effect in 1965.

The original Champion aircraft would have been type certified under CAR requirements, which were less stringent. When the FAR took effect in 1965, I assume that aircraft with a previously existing type certificate were grandfathered in as compliant. However, when the type certificate changed hands to Bellanca, they probably had to comply with the more complex Part 23 requirements. Hence the rewrite.

Bob probably knows. I think he helped write CAR 4a.

 

[Bob Turner]

I think Ed pretty much has it right. Not sure the type certificate has to change when it is sold - not an expert on the 7ECA.

BART has a quick link to the data sheets.

 

[Bob Turner]

Here you go-

Certification Basis


6)
1) Part 4(a) of the Civil Air Regulations effective as amended to April 7, 1950,
except paragraph 4a.532(m) (for all models except 7GCBA).
2) Paragraphs 23.25 and 23.959 of the Federal Aviation Regulations dated February 1, 1965 for Models 7ECA, 7GCAA, 7GCBC, and 7KCAB.