Hello from Missouri

3

31Bravo

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
13
Location
Missouri
Joined about a week ago . Looks like a great site and a wealth of info with the quality of members present ! I have a 1957 7FC that was converted to a 7EC. Great plane that is a joy to fly . Put a set of air streaks on it and makes hay fields smoother . Thanks for the site !
 
You're welcome, and, pictures!

Welcome to ChampCitabriaDecathlonForums.com, we're happy you found us, but seriously, let's see some photos! I get lost somewhere between 7AC and 7ECA....what exactly is the 7EC? O-200 powered Champ with spring gear maybe? I suppose I could google it but you'd put so much more love into the explanation, it's worth the wait.
 
There are two fairly different airplanes with the designation 7EC...

The "current" 7EC "Champ" (American Champion Aircraft Corporation) began production in 2007. It is basically the same fuselage as the original 7AC "Champ", but with the new aluminum-spar wings, aluminum "spring" gear legs, and the O-200 engine. Gross weight is 1320 to comply with SLSA rules, and given the "typical" empty weight of 925 lbs, the useful load is a meager 395 lbs (minus however much avgas you need for the mission). Add a bunch of radios, and that goes down even more... Not too many being sold, from what I understand.

The "old" 7EC was built by Aeronca (and also by the "old" Champion company – pre-Bellanca) starting in 1950. Some would argue that it was a much better airplane, with it's oleo gear, wooden wing spars, lower empty weight (890 lbs), higher gross weight (1450 lbs - though some models were only 1300 lbs), and the C-90 engine (which some people claim makes better torque than the O-200). The UL of 560 lbs makes it a much more practical airplane.
 
American Champion posted that their Champ demonstrator is for sale, and they expect it will probably be the last one made. Built in 2016.

They said that the new medical rules were the issue-- the gross weight was just too restrictive. It does make you wonder if they could increase the gross weight by 100-150 pounds and get a few more sales, maybe by using an STC or "factory option."
 
The Citabria/Decathlon/Scout series are not really competing with older airplanes in quite the way this thing does.

I can see why a wealthy dude would opt for a $130K Decathlon rather than a $40K runout, but I have problems envisioning buying a heavy version of an old Aeronca Champ that will need ADS-B next year for a hundred grand when I can get a good used Champ for a quarter of that.

My analysis breaks down when considering the Legend Cub, but there are differences between a J-3 and an old Champ, not the least of which is the market value.
 
@31Bravo, sorry to hijack your welcome thread with a debate about old vs. new Champs!

Welcome! I look forward to reading your posts.
 
Bob Turner said:
...My analysis breaks down when considering the Legend Cub, but there are differences between a J-3 and an old Champ, not the least of which is the market value.
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Coming back home from the 34th annual West Coast Cub Fly-in in Lompoc a few weeks ago I passed a really nice looking Legend Cub in my ‘58 7EC Champ and yea, he was going the same direction as me so I really did “pass” him. :)
 
Flew a 100 hp Legend coast to coast. Door was open most of the time. Maybe 6-7 mph faster than a Stock J-3. I think a 65 hp Champ is about 10 mph faster than a J-3, so I would expect the 90 hp Champ to pass a Legend. If your mission is cross country, a Cub would be last on the list.
 
I think "creeped past" would better describe what I did, I had plenty of time to look him over and we flew wing to wing for a bit. My Champ has a Sensenich 76AK-2-44 which is classed a climb prop so my cruise is not much over 80 mph. I really like the Champ but, truth be told, I'm looking for a SC.
 
kcabpilot said:
I think "creeped past" would better describe what I did, I had plenty of time to look him over and we flew wing to wing for a bit. My Champ has a Sensenich 76AK-2-44 which is classed a climb prop so my cruise is not much over 80 mph. I really like the Champ but, truth be told, I'm looking for a SC.
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I too am a 7FC to EC and welcome, Apparently more FC owners want the wheel back on the tail than like the collector's value of a rare nosewheel Aeronca. We pay a little weight penalty but these airplanes compare very well price/performance wise with other slow birds. Gas money baby!
 
Bob Turner said:
Flew a 100 hp Legend coast to coast. Door was open most of the time. Maybe 6-7 mph faster than a Stock J-3. I think a 65 hp Champ is about 10 mph faster than a J-3, so I would expect the 90 hp Champ to pass a Legend. If your mission is cross country, a Cub would be last on the list.
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My 76AK-2-46 puts my cruise up about 90-95 at 2200 and my little Garmin 550 on calm days concurs. Previous owner had prop repitched twice to,I assume, get the static right. Prolly some instrument error in both tach and ASI but it's what I get.
 
No, that sounds right for a Champ. I flew an O-200 Champ from Denver to San Diego a couple years ago with a wood climb prop, and got pretty close to 90. Champs are simply faster than Cubs. Mine does 120 all day long, but it has 180 hp and C/S. And a shorter wing.
 
I can get closer to 90 if someone is in the back seat but not when I'm solo. What kind of climb rates do you guys get?
 
Champs do not have great climb rates - the Chief I flew west in April had about 150 fpm at sea level, and 140 fpm at 5000'. Quite adequate if you plan your departure over something no higher than the runway.

My Dec, on the other hand, stabilizes at 1300 fpm at sea level, 70 degrees, with just me on board.
 
Well there must be some difference in our props because I get more like 750 to 800 on a standard day solo with 26 gal but, like I said, 80-85 mph cruise.
 
kcabpilot said:
Well there must be some difference in our props because I get more like 750 to 800 on a standard day solo with 26 gal but, like I said, 80-85 mph cruise.
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kcabpilot said:
I can get closer to 90 if someone is in the back seat but not when I'm solo. What kind of climb rates do you guys get?
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I tell passengers we are gonna stay close to the ground for a bit-not to think we’re having a problem because we aren’t climbing like a 757. Oddly, when you pack another 200 pounder in the back-it flies better! In my experience, (but it doesnt climb better)😏.
 
HalfTonChamp said:
I too am a 7FC to EC and welcome, Apparently more FC owners want the wheel back on the tail than like the collector's value of a rare nosewheel Aeronca...
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Looking back through the logs I see mine was converted in 1980 (I thought it was earlier) From what I've heard the FC had some quirky ground handling qualities that made it susceptible to tipping over if making a turn in a tailwind sort of like a kids tricycle and this in fact appears to have happened to mine more than once - the first occurrence less than a year after it left the factory and the third occurrence prompting the owner to finally abandon the concept and convert it to an EC. I've seen a few FC's for sale but didn't notice the rarity making them worth any more than an EC. I think there is probably a rarity of people who actually want an FC, kind of like a tricycle Maule.

Now a 7JC - that's a rare bird but who in there right mind would want one?

7JC.webp
 
kcabpilot said:
Looking back through the logs I see mine was converted in 1980 (I thought it was earlier) From what I've heard the FC had some quirky ground handling qualities that made it susceptible to tipping over if making a turn in a tailwind sort of like a kids tricycle and this in fact appears to have happened to mine more than once - the first occurrence less than a year after it left the factory and the third occurrence prompting the owner to finally abandon the concept and convert it to an EC. I've seen a few FC's for sale but didn't notice the rarity making them worth any more than an EC. I think there is probably a rarity of people who actually want an FC, kind of like a tricycle Maule.

Now a 7JC - that's a rare bird but who in there right mind would want one?

View attachment 1025
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When I was a kid there was a ride like that at the fair called the Tilt-a-Whirl.
 
31Bravo said:
... Put a set of air streaks on it and makes hay fields smoother ....
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Do you have any pictures? I have 8.00's on mine but was thinking of getting the 26 inch Airstreaks. It's technically not legal to put 8.50's on, the Airstreaks have an STC. The no-bounce gear is pretty good for the landing but not much cushion on the taxi springs once you are down.
 
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