All 7 Series HELP! 7ECA Heel Brake rebuild kit

kswans1314

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Ok so stick with me, I've had a few sodas and I'm somewhat frustrated..

So two flying days after a very extensive annual, my left brake line failed. Upon bleeding the new line we determined that the master needed to be rebuilt. Long story short, my bird has original heel brakes. Which (at least on paper) would be Gerdes part A-110-44. Nowhere on planet earth does someone support this part anymore. So now, after a two and half month annual, then waiting another 3 weeks for rebuild kits to come from Wisconsin (I live in Michigan). You could imagine my surprise today when I find out that the rebuild kits I was sold are for Cleveland part 10-5 (which is the correct part for a heel brake assembly on a 7ECA..If it were to have Cleveland brakes). Factory tells me I can order new 10-5's masters with an 8 week lead time. (My wife asked if they were being made by hand) .. This cannot possibly be happening.. I find it very hard to believe that nobody makes a rebuild kit for these old master cylinders. On another note, looking at Cleveland Part 10-54 and more so Gerdes Part A-110-10 those look identical to what is on my airplane. Cleveland part 10-5 at least from what I have seen on the internet looks nothing like what I have going on. I have found a few A-110-10's used and even rebuild kits for 10-54's, but Cleveland 10-5 and A-110-44 seem to be unicorns. I am no A&P but I have always turned my own wrench everywhere else in life. I like to trust the knowledge of my local shop and correct me where I am wrong, but it shouldn't be this hard to come by a few rubber o-rings and/or lock washers. Does anyone understand my options? Do I even have any shy of converting to toe brakes??

Thanks in advance to the person who shows me I am being an idiot and points me in the right direction..
 

aftCG

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I've got a complete set of heel brakes hanging on the wall of my hangar. Pedals, linkages, master cylinders, etc.
The ones in my plane have never given a hint of trouble.
 

kswans1314

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Could you snap a few pic next time you’re there if you remember. My tags are worn off so I cannot confirm anything other than the first few letters of Gerdes.
 

kswans1314

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Gerdes, I am almost 100% positive they are part A110-10. Which is now a 10-54 Cleveland. But the factory claims that is a toe only master. I have the firewall mounted reservoir and parking brake block just as a toe brake system would look, just looks as if the masters lay flat and are connected to heel pedals instead.
 

kswans1314

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I have Cleveland wheel and brakes. Which is irrelevant because I am talking about a master cylinder that leaks and won’t hold pressure. It’s a 74 for what it’s worth.
 

aftCG

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Gerdes, I am almost 100% positive they are part A110-10. Which is now a 10-54 Cleveland. But the factory claims that is a toe only master. I have the firewall mounted reservoir and parking brake block just as a toe brake system would look, just looks as if the masters lay flat and are connected to heel pedals instead.
Oh now that's weird. My master cylinders have small reservoirs on each one and there are no provisions for a parking brake.
 

Hiperbiper

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Gerdes made parts for Cleveland brakes many moons ago...most Gerdes master cylinders were later sold by Cleveland with their different part number.
All three o rings are stock MS28775-xx parts.
The Cleveland 10-5 may be the correct kit for your masters.

Chris
 

Bartman

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Oh now that's weird. My master cylinders have small reservoirs on each one and there are no provisions for a parking brake.
Similar but different, my '68 has the reservoirs on the master cylinders but I do have a parking brake. I've got a set of the Gerdes master cylinders, they don't have the reservoirs and I was going to reuse them on my project plane but with everything else missing or mismatched I don't have much choice but to go all new Grove parts from the factory.

@kswans1314 if you rebuild your master cylinder and find it still leaks, I might have a core available for you.
 

kswans1314

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Gerdes made parts for Cleveland brakes many moons ago...most Gerdes master cylinders were later sold by Cleveland with their different part number.
All three o rings are stock MS28775-xx parts.
The Cleveland 10-5 may be the correct kit for your masters.

Chris
That's what we thought too. I ordered a kit for 10-54's hoping that will do the trick. If not a replacement master is the only option.
 

Hiperbiper

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That's what we thought too. I ordered a kit for 10-54's hoping that will do the trick. If not a replacement master is the only option.
No, if you can't find it a "kit" to rebuild your cylinders find an older A&P who has an o ring kit on his shelves...
Take the cylinder apart, clean it, measure the rings, put new ones in and put it back together. These things were being rebuilt decades prior to anyone making kits to fix 'em. All the manufacturers used stock o rings MS28775-xxx/AN6227B-xxx.

IMAG1451.jpg

This is a Gerdes master cylinder out of a 1946 Navion toe brake upgrade done in the 1980's...it doesn't have the return spring on the shaft but the innards are all about the same...upper and lower plunger seals and a smaller shaft seal. The six o rings on the towel are the old one's from both brake cylinders...

Chris
 
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Hiperbiper

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Also, Cleveland had a hydraulic brake upgrade kit that you could retrofit 7-series planes...basically the same as the toe brake kit except the master cylinders mounted in under the floor between a diagonal tube and the heel brake pedal. I think the kit and STC are still listed for sale in the Wag Aero catalog.
Chris
 

Bob Turner

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If you go for new, check with Grove. He has made some improvements, and no longer uses the pesky Stat-O-Seal.

I rebuilt my toe brake cylinders last year, and got a kit from Plane Parts or something for cheap - almost the same price as just O rings. I posted a thread here (somewhere).
 

kswans1314

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Also, Cleveland had a hydraulic brake upgrade kit that you could retrofit 7-series planes...basically the same as the toe brake kit except the master cylinders mounted in under the floor between a diagonal tube and the heel brake pedal. I think the kit and STC are still listed for sale in the Wag Aero catalog.
Chris
I agree that must be what happened in this case. The only thing I could come across however was the actual Heel to Toe brake conversion. (STC SA34CH). I just got back from the shop, I am now confident these are 10-54 masters. (Gerdes A-110-10). Which makes perfect sense of why the rings for 10-5 masters do not fit. Main difference between the two we are missing seal 095-02600.
 

Hiperbiper

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If you indeed have the 10-54/110-10's.
You need:
(1) MS28775-111
(1) MS28775-112
(1) MS28775-012

Stat o seal seldom goes bad but if you want to replace it the pn is 095-02600.
One cir clip and some 5606 and you're good to go...
Chris
 

Bob Turner

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