Importing From Canada, Anyone?

Bartman

Bartman

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Hi all,

Would anyone happen to know what's involved in importing a US manufactured airplane that is currently registered in Canada? Someone called about a 7ECA that they'd like to sell and it seems like a good fit for our flying club.

Thanks!
Bart
 
Bartman said:
Hi all,

Would anyone happen to know what's involved in importing a US manufactured airplane that is currently registered in Canada? Someone called about a 7ECA that they'd like to sell and it seems like a good fit for our flying club.

Thanks!
Bart
Click to expand...
AOPA can help with that.
 
It took three years and over $50,000.00 to import a Piper PA-12. The airplane was flyable when purchased. The FAA told us we had to use a Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR) to acquire the U.S. Airworthiness Certificate because they didn't do that anymore.

I'm looking forward to reading about your experience getting an U.S. Airworthiness Certificate. Everyone has a different story. Some are simple and some are just outrageous.
 
Klaus M said:
It took three years and over $50,000.00 to import a Piper PA-12. The airplane was flyable when purchased. The FAA told us we had to use a Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR) to acquire the U.S. Airworthiness Certificate because they didn't do that anymore.

I'm looking forward to reading about your experience getting an U.S. Airworthiness Certificate. Everyone has a different story. Some are simple and some are just outrageous.
Click to expand...

Hi Klaus,

You spent $50k additional to import the plane before receiving your new airworthiness cert?
 
Bartman said:
Hi Klaus,

You spent $50k additional to import the plane before receiving your new airworthiness cert?
Click to expand...
The DAR was not comfortable with the Canadian STC system. Many of the modifications did not have FAA STC's. instead they had the equivalent Canadian Approval. To get the modifications to fall inline with the FAA STC we had to purchase the STCs. (7 of them $)

The PA-12 is 70 years old and had been rebuilt in Canada a couple of times over the years. To satisfy the compliance of every A.D. and repairs the aircraft was completely disassembled. The Maintenance item were confirmed or re-done to the satisfaction of the DAR.

Here's a couple issues that we dealt with. The O-320 had the 160 HP pistons and even though the engine had an STC for the increase horsepower the Airframe did not have an STC for the 10 horsepower increase. So we removed all the pistons and rings and installed stock O-320 Pistons.
The Superior Aircraft Parts (SAP) Oil Filter adapter was PMA but the DAR did not approve of the way SAP acquired their insallation approval so we purchased the Lycoming Oil Screen Assembly and put it on.
 
One of my Stearman buddies went through the process.
I helped lay out the steps -
First, you get it registered in the US. Then you affix the N- number.
Then you get a 100 hr. inspection. That can be done by an A&P.
Then you fill out a form for the FAA.
The FSDO will say "no - get a DER. But persist - it is their job. All they need to do is look at the N-number, data plate, and make sure it really is an airplane.
Then they issue the Airworthiness Certificate, and make an entry in the aircraft log.
Done.

It took my buddy seven months. He almost gave up, but after he suggested that he might go to FAA legal in Washington the certificate took four more days. Hard copy.

They don't read the guidance carefully - they skipped the logbook entry. But who cares? Got it done.

Some of the delay - he wanted an annual, which takes an IA. Some of the local IAs were a bit freaked out because the FSDO was watching - and there was a major repair involved.

I can get the guidance for you next time I open the big computer.
 
By the way - you do not need an Airworthiness Certificate to complete a 100 hr or Annual inspection.
 
Bob Turner said:
By the way - you do not need an Airworthiness Certificate to complete a 100 hr or Annual inspection.
Click to expand...
When we did the Annual for the PA-12. We stated that the completion of the Annual was pending the discrepancy of acquiring an Airworthiness Certificate. The aircraft is to have an Airworthiness Certificate to be flown and in 100 hour/Annual inspection per:
91.409 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-E/section-91.409

The DAR signed a statement confirming the aircraft had received an Airworthiness Certificate then the IA signed off the Annual.
 
Yeah. Our local FSDO made that mistake too. They were going to violate the guy who did the annual. The feds have "guidance" that they are actually bound by:



Charlie Longley, over on Super Cub, found it for me:

If registration and airworthiness certificates are not available, the aircraft does not need to be reported in unairworthy condition; however, the owner or operator should be informed that the documents required by 14 CFR part 91, § 91.203(a)(2), should be in the aircraft and the airworthiness certificate displayed when the aircraft is operated.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/training_testing/testing/ia_info_guide.pdf

Here is the guidance for getting an Airworthiness Certificate for a Canadian aircraft. Note that some say that if the Canadian aircraft had been "converted" to "owner maintenance," then it becomes hopeless. But otherwise, here:

Order 8130.2J - guidance that is mandatory for FAA inspectors:



2.2 – an ASI is authorized to issue an Airworthiness Certificate.



2.3 – outlines the procedure:

Complete form 8130-6 (owner does this)

Review TCDS

Review records – current registration, maintenance.

Inspect – markings, data plate – both present and conform.

Look for violations of 14 cfr 45.13(c) or (e) – these are the big deal data plate regulations – this aircraft has its original 1940 data plate.

Verify – Type Certificate conformance, ADs, Repairs, Alterations. (part of the Annual Inspection).

Verify – placards (be sure to have limitations posted somewhere – CAA form 308?)

Document – FAA fills out 8100.1.

Allow the owner to correct stuff (like the inspection within 30 days?) I believe this one permits the ASI to simply inspect the entry for Annual Inspection (equivalent to a 100 hr inspection).

Issue! Form 8130-6 and the certificate.

FAA makes a record entry in the logbook.

Done!



Chapter 3 (3.6(a)) – requires a 100 hour inspection within (prior to) 30 days of the conformance inspection.
 
Bob, it might be cheaper to fly it to San Diego so you can do the import and US registration before we bring it home to NJ! lol
 
Bob, what is your going rate for doing aircraft imports to the U.S.? Your connections with the FAA are invaluable it would be worth at least $5000 to me to bring the next plane in.
 
I did not actually do the work - I did the research, and provided just what you see above.

The glitches: FAA wants you to pay DERs. They no longer have to show up at the office, due to Covid and 9/11 restrictions to our access. It should be a team effort, and we ought to be able to visit any time without an appointment - but no longer . . .

There was a rib damaged near the trailing edge. I did get involved in that, and there were some minor paperwork scuffles. My name is on that 337. It was the kind of thing most would ignore - a tiny ripple in the fabric near a rib stitch - but with the federales watching . . .

The "point" inspector is a really nice guy, but had never done one of these before. As far as I can tell, they put these things in a pile, and unless you really rattle the cage, nothing is done. You absolutely have to have the regs and guidance in your hot little hand before beginning. Even then, they may just try to dismiss you. Hang in there, and explain to them what the guidance says. They still can execute an Airworthiness Certificate in hard copy - they will tell you you have to go to the website, but even experienced folk cannot make that work without a guy on the phone leading them through.

I do have a pretty good relationship with the FSDO folks here. One guy wants to violate me for installing GTR-200s, but he is nice about it, and hasn't found the regulation to put in the required letter, so after two years my installations appear to be ok.
 
Up here in Canada Citabris can be placed in an "owner maintenance" category, make sure to check if the Citabira you are interested in is not operating under this category because they are forbidden in the USA. It's very real headache for Canadians as well to import from the states, Transport Canada does not recognize the validity of your 337 field approvals. Pilots call it "the $10 000.00 import" as this is the average cost to import a small aircraft to Canada.
 
While searching for an airplane in Canada, it was always a disappointment for me to see a reportedly decent aircraft at the right price, only to learn it was re-registered in the owner maintenance category. For me, it was a deal breaker as it meant no flights to the USA and no pilgrimage to OshKosh.

An aircraft re-registered in the owner maintenance category will have the letter X as a suffix to the model name. 7ECA would become 7ECAX.
This is imprinted on the aircraft data plate. It can be checked in the Canadian aircraft registry.

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/ccarcs-riacc/RchSimp.aspx

Cheers.
 
Because a buddy found the right plane at a good price he purchased in Canada brought it here and went through the process. He used aero title and a Dar. Don't think aero t was too pricey but the Dar was... I think around 1200.
 
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