Long time listener ....

[timmyb]

Hello All,
I am in the market for a Super D and am in need of some expertise in what to look for, what to buy, what not to buy, etc. I've owned and flown a Mooney for the past 18 years and am looking for a Super D to fly aerobatics, give my son spin training and acro training, and to enjoy basic VFR flying.

I keep vacillating between older Super D's with the wooden spar and newer ones with metal spars. I've heard horror stories about the ceconite on older airplanes and issues that lurk underneath that cannot be found without pulling the ceconite off and replacing it. Here are some of my questions, in no particular order:
-How long does the ceconite last? I know it is dependent on how it is maintained, but for well-cared for (always hangared) aircraft, how long?
-Is there a way to determine from just looking at the ceconite if it has been maintained well?
-Beyond a borescope, is there a way to really ascertain the integrity of a wood spar?
-At what age/hours would you expect to have to recover the airplane and refurb or replace the spar?

Anything that I am missing or should be on the lookout for?

thanks in advance for your help and advice

 

[Rickw]

First thing I would do is find a good tube and fabric A&P that's local to you then start hunting for a plane.Your A&P will test and check everything for condition.PS: the guys here will give you a lot of good info

 

[Bob Turner]

Buy the best one you can afford. Wood spars, well cared-for, are forever.; fabric lasts a very long time - not so paint.

 

[Bartman]

How long does the ceconite last? I know it is dependent on how it is maintained, but for well-cared for (always hangared) aircraft, how long?

The underlying fabric can last a long time if the plane has been hangared. On the Bellanca era aircraft, the fabric might be fine but we've seen reinforcing tapes and paint that didn't hold up as well.

-Is there a way to determine from just looking at the ceconite if it has been maintained well?

in my opinion, if the paint looks good (original paint, not a respray onto old paint) and the tapes are tight, the fabric is probably pretty good too. if you're asking the question though, plan to have an A&P with fabric experience inspect everything for you.

-Beyond a borescope, is there a way to really ascertain the integrity of a wood spar?

it's a time consuming process to fully inspect wood spars. try to start with a plane that was well cared for and which has a well documented maintenance history. Normal flying doesn't damage the spars, neglect and mishandling do so you'll start by seeing what the logs have to say. Past history of wing damage is a red flag. Here again, an A&P that is familiar with our wood spar issues will be invaluable. A plane that was recently rebuilt with new spars should be perfectly fine.

-At what age/hours would you expect to have to recover the airplane and refurb or replace the spar?

Hard to say, some people strip the wings, inspect everything, tweak whatever needs tweaking and then recover the wings with the old spars still in place. Fabric is replaced on condition, that is, when it needs to be replaced so it's also hard to identify a hard limit. But, an airplane that was built in the 70's is now about fifty years old and original fabric, even nice original fabric, can hide other problems so make sure an inspection includes pulling the rear seat and the rear baggage area panels so the interior of the tail can be thoroughly looked at for corroded tubes, frayed control cables and other stuff like that. Loose controls can be rebuilt in place for not too much money but corroded tubing under nice fabric will be very bad news.

Good luck!

 

[Bartman]

@timmyb where in PA are you? we're meeting Saturday morning to discuss starting a flying club with a Citabria at Alexandria Field (N85) in Pittstown, NJ.

I also have a Super Decathlon that will be like a new airplane when it's back from ACA later this year. I may take on partners in order to recoup some of what I spent rebuilding it (which was a lot! ).

 

[timmyb]

All--thank you very much for the insights and guidance. @Bartman -- I am located in W PA (Pittsburgh area, my mooney is based at KBVI). What is ACA doing to your Super D?

 

[Bartman]

New wings, paint, final assembly, annual inspection, and test flights. It's a '77 that has now been completely rebuilt, there are probably more new parts than used parts! lol

Here she is all loaded up and headed to ACA last week.

 

[timmyb]

@Bartman how long will it take for all of that?

 

[Bartman]

It might be done as early as the middle of the summer or maybe as late as early next year. They stay busy and sometimes the schedule slips. No hurry.