New Member located I68 - Cincinnati - 7ECA

loopnroll

loopnroll

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
18
Location
Cincinnati
Hello all,

I probably should have joined this group years ago. I have owned 76 8KCAB, 92 Super D and now own a 2004 7ECA that I picked up in 2018. I do some tail wheel and spin endorsements and have been working on acro in the 7ECA which is quite different than the Ds but a ton of fun. Thanks for having me.

If someone does read this post, I have some questions about elevator travel, stick throw and my ability to keep the plane in a spin even with two people. I could see how with just me in the front, I could be forward CG but with two people and 220lbs in the back seat, I should be able to keep the plane in spin. It wants to break out after about 2 turns. Am I too fat to get enough aft stick? Anyone else have this issue?
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I admire you. I restrict myself and my students to one turn. We lost a very competent pilot a couple years ago - his business was teaching spins in a Citabria. Most think his engine quit and he botched the landing somehow. I think he was doing multi turn spins and the airplane tightened up. Some experts say it can happen in any aircraft. I am not an expert.

Say hi to Martha.
 
Hi @loopnroll , welcome to the site, we're happy you found us. :)

Are you getting a clean entry into the spin? It seems Citabrias and Decathlons will both sluggishly transition into the spin entry but never really spin unless there's a clean break with the last little bit of energy leading up to the stall. there's a thread in the aerobatics sub-forum where it's discussed.
If you want to compare elevator deflection, we can do that too. I've got a 7ECA and would be happy to measure up/down deflection for you. I would expect with two people it would be happy to stay in the spin provided the stick is being held back.

last thing, there's a shortcut to the site, CCDforums.com will bring you here. The long name is good for how search results display, the shortcut is easier to type.

Welcome!
 
Hello Bob, Sorry to hear about your loss. I cannot get my to tighten up as it "pops" out of the spin even with full aft stick and full rudder. I have not tried opposite aileron.

i have not seen Martha in a while but If I do, I will say hi for you.
 
Hello Bartman,

Thanks for the input. Yes, if you can measure you full aft deflection and see what the up is, that would be welcome. I bought the plane in June 18 out of Canada via Great Falls Montana. What a great flight back to Cinci from there. Best flight of my 47 years in the air. VFR and just point the nose eastish.

On my first landing in Sydney MT with a strong quartering XW, I could not get enough aft stick to flair (too much belly) and ended up with a bit of a porpoise which I do NOT do. Should have done a wheely but who knew? I ended up adjusting the seatbelt buckle off to the left for the rest of that flight giving me about another 1/2" of aft travel and that tamed the landing behavior.

Upon returning to Cinci, I called the seller and he asked if I had adjusted the seat to the rear most position.....Duh. Nope! Did not check that. That helped a lot. Then I lost almost 30 lbs during lockdown in the past year..yes, I lost the Covid 19 and then some (not due to covid) on purpose so I could get the plane in CG for Acro with me in the back seat. That also allowed additional stick travel (less belly).

But even with me forcing the stick in my gut, full rudder and aggravated stall, the plane still will not develop a good spin. Its better with me in the back and breaks cleaner but I have not been winding up my students beyond 2 turns for fear of getting them queezy.

Next time I go up, I will try to really aggravate it and see if I can get a better entry and then try some opposite aileron .

THanks for the input.
Steve
 
Steve, I ran out of time today and am heading out tonight. Will follow through end of the week when I'm back home and by the hangar. Sorry about that.
 
Bartman said:
I see you added a photo, that's a great looking 7ECA!
Click to expand...
It is really nice. Had 595 on the Tach when I bought it - now 752. Saw your Happy New Year post. I spent a lot of time social distancing in 2020 at or around 4,000' msl. It was weird driving to the airport with no one on the roads and then go fly.

I added the Appareo ADSB Transponder and stratus for in and out during the 2019 annual. At last annual, I added a SureFly mag on the right side and it is really great. Instant starts hot or cold. I had experienced trouble starting with the stock mags.

Now I am planning on doing something really dumb and pull the vacuum system and gyros and replace them with a Uavionix AV-30. To add to the dumbness, I am replacing the Tach with a EI Tach/Engine Monitor. Its only money but my gyros really dislike my acro and getting rid of the maintenance and weight of the vac system is welcome. The engine monitor will be welcome as well to really see what the engine is doing while I do Acro.

Unless I am feeling really puny, I go upside down at some point during every solo flight.

I think I saw that you posted about Butler Valley airport in PA. I grew up in Pottstown and flew in there as a young pilot at 17.
 
The TCDS for your plane lists 24* both up and down elevator (with the stock engine and CG).
Be careful introducing aileron during a spin; in some cases it can cause the center of rotation to migrate inboard ...that's called a flat spin and it can be slower/more difficult
to recover than a normal spin.

Chris
 
Hiperbiper said:
The TCDS for your plane lists 24* both up and down elevator (with the stock engine and CG).
Be careful introducing aileron during a spin; in some cases it can cause the center of rotation to migrate inboard ...that's called a flat spin and it can be slower/more difficult
to recover than a normal spin.

Chris
Click to expand...
Thanks Chris. I agree on the opposite aileron and will introduce minimally. I know flat spins...not that I was ever in one for real....just models.
 
Regarding your installation of the AV30 CP; only the Experimental version is switchable between AH and DG...for installation in Certified aircraft as primary instrument(s) you will unfortunately need to get two separate units...🥺
Unless something has changed with the AV30 certification.

Chris
 
Hiperbiper said:
Regarding your installation of the AV30 CP; only the Experimental version is switchable between AH and DG...for installation in Certified aircraft as primary instrument(s) you will unfortunately need to get two separate units...🥺
Unless something has changed with the AV30 certification.

Chris
Click to expand...
It has not changed, and is regulatory. It was one of my complaints about the G5 but the AV30 has the same issue.
 
loopnroll said:
Hello Bartman,

Thanks for the input. Yes, if you can measure you full aft deflection and see what the up is, that would be welcome. I bought the plane in June 18 out of Canada via Great Falls Montana. What a great flight back to Cinci from there. Best flight of my 47 years in the air. VFR and just point the nose eastish.

On my first landing in Sydney MT with a strong quartering XW, I could not get enough aft stick to flair (too much belly) and ended up with a bit of a porpoise which I do NOT do. Should have done a wheely but who knew? I ended up adjusting the seatbelt buckle off to the left for the rest of that flight giving me about another 1/2" of aft travel and that tamed the landing behavior.

Upon returning to Cinci, I called the seller and he asked if I had adjusted the seat to the rear most position.....Duh. Nope! Did not check that. That helped a lot. Then I lost almost 30 lbs during lockdown in the past year..yes, I lost the Covid 19 and then some (not due to covid) on purpose so I could get the plane in CG for Acro with me in the back seat. That also allowed additional stick travel (less belly).

But even with me forcing the stick in my gut, full rudder and aggravated stall, the plane still will not develop a good spin. Its better with me in the back and breaks cleaner but I have not been winding up my students beyond 2 turns for fear of getting them queezy.

Next time I go up, I will try to really aggravate it and see if I can get a better entry and then try some opposite aileron .

THanks for the input.
Steve
Click to expand...
My plane is virtually spin proof. I posted here about it last summer and was given good advice about how to get it to break cleanly but haven't had a chance to check it out.

With a slow deceleration my plane will get to full aft stick and merely descend, maybe a slight nod but never an actual stall. With partial power and a high deck angle I can get it to break right but not left (which I thought was odd). When it does break right, if I hold the controls into the spin it will recover (nose down and banking) in just over half a turn.

Who needs a canard or Ercoupe when you've a plane like this?
 
Crank IN 1-2 turns on each lift strut. This will put 1-1.5* more angle of incidence in the outer wing sections. You won't cruise as fast but you will be able stall the whole wing at the same time...

Chris
 
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