Olin Pash aileron spades

aftCG

aftCG

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Tacoma, WA
I have a set of spades on long term loan from someone who sold his Citabria project and bought a flying Stinson. Yesterday he gave me "the paperwork" which included the STC, a sample 337 from someone else's installation and the installation instructions.

The STC states that there are two drawing sheets along with the installation instructions (which are frankly clear enough to do the whole job). There's no way my mechanic would fill out a 337 if I wasn't able to show all the paperwork.

I'm quite sure I have read that Olin washed his hands of supporting his spades quite a while ago (interaction with the Friendly Airplane Administration), so I don't want to bug him.

If any of you have access to these drawings and could scan/copy and send them to me I would greatly appreciate it.

For anyone curious about "why spades?", the plane I got my tail wheel endorsement in many years ago had them. Without anything to compare them to I accepted them as "normal". The plane I own is functionally identical to that plane from my past (perhaps not quite as heavily abused) and the very first thing I noticed while flying was the WTF aileron forces when compared to rudder and elevator inputs. After making sure that my plane works as they are supposed to, I vowed to seek out a set of spades. They almost never come up on the used market.

Olin's spades attach to the inboard end of the ailerons, and as such they reduce the forces on the cables, pulleys and push rods through the entire system. Inboard they are less of a visual scar (my uncle hates spades enough to spit), and I'm at least slightly less likely to whack into them with my face during preflight.

Plus the price is right.
 
If that STC isn't supported by Olin, would it be reasonable to assume we could publish the paperwork here for future reference? If so, please post a new thread in the STC sub-forum once you have a complete set of paperwork, unless you think it wouldn't be right to do so.
Thanks!
Bart
 
Good question. The STC is a matter of public record (you can search them all on the FAA web site). Getting your hands on the actual spades is the unicorn here, and with a set in hand all I'm looking to do is backfill the paperwork to be legit and legal.

I just went through an STC exercise to put Desser Aero Classic 8.50x6 tires on my plane. The STC I found for those states that the family waives rights to compensation. There's also no drawing needed, just a W&B correction.

From what I've read, some STCs are issued by the STC holder specific to a tail number and would therefore not be transferable (as far as I know). Nothing on my STC paperwork for the spades indicates any serialization.
 
I suppose filing a 337 is easy enough, since nobody looks at them any more. But for a while you needed a specific statement from the STC holder. Same with type certificate - you cannot build an airplane from parts, even though each piece is genuine.

I even see 337s purporting to be field approvals without an FAA stamp.
 
I'm reading Bob's response and the light went on in my head, I have spades! lol.....it's been a while since I've seen the airplane assembled....I suppose I can look in my little pile of paperwork for the info to see if I have Olin Pash spades and the docs you need?

sorry I'm an idiot sometimes and made you wait! :sleep::sleep::sleep:
 
If you really want to be "legal" you need permission from the STC holder. Note the way Stits did it: "if you purchase our products you are authorized to use our STC". If the STC owner says "we no longer support it" that could mean that new installations cannot be done under STC.

My point was - unless you have a statement authorizing you to use an STC, you cannot legally use it. As with flying without an annual or insurance, nobody knows or cares until something goes wrong. An invalid 337 is simply filed - nobody looks at it. A lot of IAs do not know much about the 337 process.
 
There is a guy who posts on the Cub forums who is really up to date on this stuff - we should entice him to join here. His name is Dave, call sign dga, and he is a VDER, whatever that is.

As I understand it, prior to some date maybe in the 1990s all you needed was a 337 referencing the STC, and a log entry. After that date, an original (not xeroxed, or at least embossed) permission letter with your N-number was required unless the STC itself said it was not required. That was to protect the STC holder's intellectual property rights.

i am the first guy to stretch the regs to cover what I want to do, but I also urge that if something is clearly out of bounds one should find some other way to do it.
 
Bob Turner said:
If you really want to be "legal" you need permission from the STC holder. Note the way Stits did it: "if you purchase our products you are authorized to use our STC". If the STC owner says "we no longer support it" that could mean that new installations cannot be done under STC.

My point was - unless you have a statement authorizing you to use an STC, you cannot legally use it. As with flying without an annual or insurance, nobody knows or cares until something goes wrong. An invalid 337 is simply filed - nobody looks at it. A lot of IAs do not know much about the 337 process.
Click to expand...

Good discussion. Let's use your examples here to generate a few scenarios.

The one you mention for Stits covering system isn't too terribly far from a set of spades manufactured by the STC holder. Can I argue that I have the spades, therefore as long as I have the STC and drawings I am not depriving the STC holder of food on his table?

He was paid for the spades and paperwork. The plane they were on is a long gone basket case. Now if I copied his parts and had them duplicated, then I would be stealing his intellectual property and would likely burn in hell (a distinct possibility anyway).

Are there allowances for transferring an STC? There must be, because I own a plane with several pages of them and I didn't buy them. What about if I bend my airplane beyond salvage and wish to transfer those STCs to the plane the insurance company buys me? What if I just sell it and want to keep my big fat tires/floats/glass panel (none of which I have). Okay my Whelen strobe system then. Do I have to get permission from Whelen for them to do zero work?

Note that is different from someone certifying a (let's just get ridiculous here) O-470 on a Citabria using a motor mount from X and a cowling from Y and a certain prop. Nothing keeps a person from printing out the paperwork and buying used parts, and getting a free ride from someone else's work and that is valid reasoning for requiring some type of acknowledgment from the STC holder.

Another example is a pencil whip STC for using 87 octane car gas, where again someone put in the effort to assure it was safe but all it takes is a couple of stickers and a logbook entry.

I just used the FAA website to find two STCs that I'm all about this week.

SA3019WE is the one I'm using for my tires. It clearly states that the holder waives rights to compensation. Do I still have to get written permission from them?

And of course the subject of this thread which is SA2699CE which is Olin's STC.

Now I did learn from looking on the FAA website there is a process whereby if you send a letter to the STC holder and it is returned unopened then there is a path forward (a link I didn't follow).
 
I will double check. I stand by what I posted, but I have been wrong before. I do not believe you can transfer an STC to a new airplane. I do not believe you can transfer a field approval either, although you can find words that make a field approval "approved data" for the original installer. More later.
 
That was the original question.
My spades bolt in the exact same position, but are a different STC. Let me look -
 
Yep. Marion Cole spades, applied with a field approval. Not sure that helps - I bet a field approval like this would be tough to do today. It was done in 1982 - ancient history!
 
aftCG said:
The STC states that there are two drawing sheets along with the installation instructions (which are frankly clear enough to do the whole job). There's no way my mechanic would fill out a 337 if I wasn't able to show all the paperwork.

I'm quite sure I have read that Olin washed his hands of supporting his spades quite a while ago (interaction with the Friendly Airplane Administration), so I don't want to bug him.

If any of you have access to these drawings and could scan/copy and send them to me I would greatly appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Just surfing through old threads and saw this, did you ever get the drawings?
 
Charlie - even if you get copies of all that, you still cannot install them legally. It would be just as legal, and lots easier, to just bolt them on. Mine go on and off with a couple bolts at the hinge - takes ten minutes a side.
 
Looked through my stack of paperwork last night, no drawings, just the two-page STC document. Sorry guys.
 
It has occurred to me that it may be a stroke of genius to refer to page 2 of the documentation and then not have a page 2.

Everyone with a second hand set or knock off copy would call you looking for it.
 
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