Owner/Instructor Leasebacks?

Bartman

Bartman

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Just wondering how many of you are using your personal airplanes to do acro and tailwheel training? My CFI is expired but I've considered renewing it to do instruction at the local flight school with my 7ECA.

Would love to hear how that's working out.

Thanks!
 
My personal plane ("Rags") still has the original fabric on most of the plane, at least according to the logs. It's had numerous repairs, but basically it's 53-year-old fabric. Always hangared, so it looks amazingly good most places, and my IA says he cannot believe it's the original fabric - suspects someone recovered it "off the books" at some point. But in any case, I decided when I first got it that there would be no aerobatics (other than spins) until the fabric is replaced, at which time everything structural can be inspected. Thus no acro training (for me or anyone else) in Rags...

I did once run into some turbulence that created enough of a updraft that the oleo gear "clunked" when it went back down. Not anticipating it, the noise scared the heck out of me until I remembered reading about everyone's first roll or loop in an oleo-geared 7ECA, and started laughing at myself. Old airplanes and funny noises - quite the combination. Definitely something to warn your student pilots about if you do acro training in an oleo-geared 7ECA!
 
Insurance is the big deal. I have liability only that covers me in others' airplanes, but not mine. Premium is double that in my personal airplanes. Most of the time, being "named" on someone else's policy does you no good. Hold out for a "waiver of subrogation".

Insuring your own airplane for instruction will be an eye-popper! Liability only in a J-3 is a grand a year, and my broker assures me it is well under market. And I still have to bring my own liability policy.

There are a lot of instructors who choose to ignore all this. Most of the time that works. When it doesn't, it is devastating!
 
Thanks for the replies. A big problem for me personally as an airline guy is FAR117 which is the most recent rest/duty regulations. It's much more restrictive than the old rules and I'd be paranoid about a violation but the bigger problem would be the probability that I wouldn't be able to do enough instruction to make all of the added expenses worth it. I'd have to see how others are finding the right balance to make it work, if anyone has been able to make it work.

I admire those of you that can make it work though.
 
Yeah, the insurance thing is rough... My CFI is an older guy (78, but I assure you he's in good enough shape that he could kick my butt if it ever came to that!) and had over 6000 hrs in taildraggers, with easily over 500 in Citabrias. My insurance company would not insure him even as a named pilot. Said he's "too old" for their underwriters. He has his own liability policy (for which he pays $$$), and teaches because he genuinely loves doing so. Good guy, and I hope he's still flying when he turns 100.
 
Good topic. I'm another CFI who let my ticket lapse a number of years ago. I bought my plane last May and steadily have had a number of people ask about an endorsement or even primary training.

For a while I thought I would just redo the CFII ride because it was the easiest ride for me. But I'm rusty as rear longeron at my instrument work and don't have access to an IFR plane.

The insurance part is an issue for sure. Back when I did this for a living I could pay under $1k/year for my cardinal RG but over $1k/month to be able to rent it out.

I'm thinking more along the lines of selling a share of my plane, have them on the policy and then "break up with them" down the road.
 
Bartman said:
Just wondering how many of you are using your personal airplanes to do acro and tailwheel training? My CFI is expired but I've considered renewing it to do instruction at the local flight school with my 7ECA.

Would love to hear how that's working out.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I'm using my 1974 7ECA for tail wheel instruction, here in Iowa (6Z6); bought it last summer and business has been steady, not exciting but steady. Recently retired my '46 7AC Champ
 
Bart, I'm an independent (Part 61) CFI, have been for 25+ years. I carry a dual-only insurance policy on the Citabria, so can't let students rent it solo. Mostly, it's used for 61.31 tail wheel training and 61.56 flight reviews. Dual-only policies are expensive, but full commercial policies are brutally expensive. Because I provide the airplane for instruction, we have to do 100-hr inspections, which we're doing now (see photo). My mechanic (A&P/IA) is also a CFII, who instructs in the Citabria. For primary instruction I use a nearby (25nm away) FBO's C172. Students can solo that. N26PK 040318 annual.webp
 
I am 76, and having no problems with insurers.

You do not want to be "named". That does nothing for you unless the policy states that you are in fact insured. They can define "named" that way, but few do.

If you instruct in other folks' aircraft, you need to join SAFE, and get their liability policy. Around $500, but it has a tail, which is critically important. Then, and this is important, if you cannot afford to purchase the aircraft you are instructing in, get a "Waiver of Subrogation."

This is very complicated. Force the broker to put it in plain English. They can do that, but won't unless you ask.

An insurer wants to make money. You want coverage. The two goals are in conflict!
 
I use my 74 7ECA-150 as an independent instructor doing Tailwheel Endorsements, Spin and Unusual Attitude training. I retired 10 years ago from a corporate flying job.
I stay as busy as I want to be, currently working with 3 pilots on their endorsements.
My insurance broker, Falcon Ins in Kerrville, TX found an underwriter based in Seattle(London Aviation Underwriters) that does a lot of business in Alaska and are very familiar with tailwheel aircraft.
The rider on my existing "Business and Pleasure" policy that says, "Dual instruction only, private pilot or better" cost an additional $350/year. I found that to be very reasonable.
 
That is excellent. Does it include hull? My broker found $299 liability only for my Cub, but the best he could do for the instruction Cub was a grand per year, liability only, dual only. London could save me $350/year. That is significant, considering I average about six hours of instruction per month in that Cub.
 
Bob,

The hull coverage is in the original "business and Pleasure" policy.

The $350/year upcharge was to pay for the rider that covered instruction and is over and above the cost of the "B&P" policy.

The cost of the "B&P" policy will vary depending on your hull value.
 
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