Parachutes in Citabrias and Decathlons

Bartman

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Hi all,

Was wondering what works best in our planes. I think my seat cushions come out to make room for a parachute but I'm high-waisted and thought a seat pack would be best.

Confused.....Who's using what?

Thanks!
 

Bob Turner

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I bought a pair of Security chutes used - $500. About went broke repacking them. My rigger got replaced with a new guy who took them apart and threatened to cut the risers, because they were 20 years old. Nothing wrong with them; just old. Sold them for cheap.

Now my aero is solo, and gentle. No more force on the structure than there is in a steep turn.
 

aftCG

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My plane came with a Parapharnalia Lil' Softie. The backpack chute is Smurf blue just like the interior of my plane. I knew it hadn't been packed in a while and I assumed anything with "Lil' " in the name would be rated for lightweights. Turns out it can handle a 240lb meat sack attached to it, so I was fine.

I flew up to AWO because that is where Parapharnalia is located. Super nice people. The woman helping me checked the tag and gave me the (mostly expected) bad news: The chute was just over 20 years old and they won't repack one after that.

She did offer me $500 trade in, and told me they would spend time letting me sit in my plane with both seat pack and backpack types. She expected that I would probably like the seat pack style after I got over the loaded diaper feeling.
My "one size fits many" fixed seats came with cushions to be added/removed as needed to suit the crew. The seat pack type is what I would need for the T-6, so that is the way I've been leaning.

It hasn't been a priority for much of this season, but I'm now starting to explore flight that is not exactly straight and level.
 

Bartman

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Hi all, found a seven year old Para-Phernalia Softie seat pack that is specifically made for the Citabria/Decathlon seats. Paid $1300 for it and it's in excellent condition.
It's being repacked as I type by Master Rigger Shauna Finley at Sussex County Airport in NJ. How do I end this....wish me luck??
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aftCG

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Hi all, found a seven year old Para-Phernalia Softie seat pack that is specifically made for the Citabria/Decathlon seats. Paid $1300 for it and it's in excellent condition.
It's being repacked as I type by Master Rigger Shauna Finley at Sussex County Airport in NJ. How do I end this....wish me luck??
View attachment 1897View attachment 1898
Meh. What's the worst that could happen?

Good score
 

Bartman

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She wasn't willing to dismiss packs older than twenty years. She emphasized that inspection can reveal most all flaws and a chute that passes inspection and tensile testing of the lines should be fine to fly with. Learned a lot from being there while she worked.
 

Big Ed

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So is the consensus that seat packs are better? I've always flown with back chutes because that is what was provided. Now am about to buy my own, so I can get whatever fits the plane best. I am about 6 feet tall, with long legs.
 

BB57

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It depends a lot on your upholstery. In my Citabria with a non adjustable front seat with removable seat cushion and non removable back cushion, a seat back is the only really practical option. There is plenty of head room, so I can leave the seal cushion in place. And in fact doing that lets me tighten the seat belts more than I would be able to otherwise.

In contrast, at just 5'8" the legroom is just about perfect and if I use a back style parachute, it adds 2" to 3" to the seat back and that puts be both too close to the rudder pedals and too close to the stick when it is full aft. If I modify the seat back cushion so that it is removable, then a back pack parachute becomes a viable option.

There are other things to think about. For example, I can get into a skinny fuselage open cockpit Pitts S-1C, but I have to twist about 45 degrees to get my shoulders to fit. With a back style parachute I can't get in it at all - but I can with a seat pack parachute.

In the Citabria the limiting factor for the rear seat occupant is the space between the front seat back and the rear of the door frame. A seat pack can be easier to fit through that space while wearing it than a back pack parachute for some people.

So it comes down to how your aircraft interior is configured, or can be reconfigured, your body size and shape, and other aircraft you might also fly where you'd want to wear the parachute.

For me a seat pack makes the most sense. For you it *probably* would was well, but you'll need to make that decision yourself.
 

BB57

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She wasn't willing to dismiss packs older than twenty years. She emphasized that inspection can reveal most all flaws and a chute that passes inspection and tensile testing of the lines should be fine to fly with. Learned a lot from being there while she worked.
You are fortunate. The riggers around here won't touch a parachute older than 20 years. Most of them are not rated to repack seat pack chutes either). The one that is, definitely won't pack a chute older than 20 years. That's limiting my options to basically a new parachute given the scarcity of used seat packs less than 20 years old.

Your chute is 7 years old and I'm curious what the response will be when it reaches 20 years. Para-Phernalia is one of the companies that specifies a 20 year lifespan in the original TSO and once that age is exceeded it is no longer airworthy.

National Parachute does not specify a life span in the TSO for their older parachutes but they express an opinion in the manual that the maximum service life is 20 years from date of manufacture, and that's enough to discourage most riggers from repacking one older than 20 years.

Similarly, Butler doesn't have a life limit in the TSO but has a "recommended service life of 20 years from the date it is placed in service or 25 years from the date of manufacture".
 

Big Ed

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According to their FAQ, Strong does not impose a service life. They will also do factory inspections and repacks. You might be able to persuade a rigger to repack it if you had a recent factory inspection, say every 5 years or so. Worst case, get Strong to repack it. Their factory is in Orlando, one hour up the road from me, so buying from them is a no-brainer for me.

The local avionics shop has their chutes listed for 15% less than MSRP. Is that unusual, or do the manufacturers deliberately high-ball their list price?

Greg Koontz is listed as a PP dealer. Any idea how his prices are? I sometimes fly past his vicinity.
 

aftCG

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There's a guy on Barnstormers that will pack a chute older than 20 years. He does a close inspection and will call you if he finds anything. I asked him how much and he said around $90 plus shipping
The paraphernalia people thought I'd be happier with a seat pack and offered me to come try them in my plane
 

Bartman

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So is the consensus that seat packs are better? I've always flown with back chutes because that is what was provided. Now am about to buy my own, so I can get whatever fits the plane best. I am about 6 feet tall, with long legs.
not sure about the back seat but I have tried both in the front seat and wouldn't recommend the backpack style as it pushed me too far forward which was uncomfortable. my back seat cushion stayed in place but it isn't very thick. being high waisted I like the boost I get from the seat pack. the only downside is that the stick is lower between my legs but I seem to have adjusted to that.
 

BB57

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not sure about the back seat but I have tried both in the front seat and wouldn't recommend the backpack style as it pushed me too far forward which was uncomfortable. my back seat cushion stayed in place but it isn't very thick. being high waisted I like the boost I get from the seat pack. the only downside is that the stick is lower between my legs but I seem to have adjusted to that.
For me, with non removable seat back cushions, a back type chute is borderline in the front seat, but it's more of less anon starter in the back seat as the stick already comes all the way to the belt without a chute on. We'd be doing wheel landings with a back type parachute.
 

Bob Turner

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I had two Security chutes, and with cushions removed they were comfortable. A very unfriendly rigger pulled one apart, then threatened to cut the risers, since it was over 20 years old. My old rigger had pronounced it airworthy within the last six months. Keeping them legal was expensive, even back then.
My aero is as gentle as a steep turn - just slow rolls and an occasional Immelman - no chute, no passengers.
 

Big Ed

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I would not go back to that guy.

One economical option would be to keep the harness and container, but replace the canopy and lines. Most manufacturers sell those for about $1,000. As long as the harness was protected from UV in storage, it's service life should be unlimited.

I've done a lot of military parachuting, and seen plenty of blown panels. While not a life threatening event, it can certainly lead to plenty of orthopedic bills. A round parachute landing is like jumping off the roof of your car while rolling forward at 5-10 mph. If you are young and fit, and know how to slip or steer, you probably won't get hurt. However, if you run with the wind or hit an obstacle, you can get banged up pretty good. I have personally seen people land in ponds and drown, go thru windshields of vehicles, get hung in high voltage power lines and have to be rescued by special teams, and get suspended from a 100' tree at night. Swapping out the canopy every 20 years or so is not an unwise rule of thumb.

I agree, for light gentlemen's acro by yourself, no need for a chute. I plan to get back into IAC Sportsman and will be pulling 4G on a regular basis, so I need one. Have to have it for contests anyways. I'll probably buy new, mainly because I don't have time to search around for a used "bargain". I also don't want to get said "bargain" and then discover from my rigger that it was not such a great deal.
 

BB57

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A bit of a personal update. I changed direction from a seat pack to a back pack parachute, for two reasons. First, I found getting in and out with a seat pack was a bit more difficult than I liked, and second, I also fly sailplanes where a back parachute will work, but a seat pack won't.

To make it work I had to modify my seat backs so that the pad is detachable. There's a new cover over the seat frame and a new back on the pad, so that it now attaches to the seat with velcro.

It works fine, provided that I keep the seat cushion forward so that the bottom of the parachute sits down behind the seat cushion. It places me about a half inch farther forward than without a parachute, but it's similar to a seat pack in that regard. The downside is that it is slightly more restrictive in terms of reaching back behind me than with a seat pack. I can still reach the emergency fuel boost pump switch, but it now takes a bit of effort.

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Bob Turner

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Move the switch to the panel beneath the instruments? Unless you use it on every takeoff and landing
 

BB57

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I've chosen to go with the checklist in the 1970 and earlier flight manual that only mentions the emergency boost pump for emergencies. A large part of that is because my aircraft is still generator equipped and I do most of my landings power off from downwind abeam the touch down point. Using the fuel boost pump with power at idle puts a drain on the battery. My understanding is that failures of the mechanical fuel pump are both very uncommon and are usually preceded by other symptoms. Consequently, my emergency fuel boost pump is used on start up only.

I like the location at the aft end of the switch panel as it is (or at least was) easy to reach back and confirm the switch by its position as the last switch on the panel and its proximity to the lower rear corner of the panel. It is also easily reached from the rear seat.

If I used it on every takeoff and landing, moving it to the instrument panel would make a great deal of sense. As it is. I am considering moving it up next to the master switch, which is just aft of the mag switches. It would be easy to reach and it would still be obvious by feel as it would be the first switch in the off (down) position. I have a SkyBeacon in a box on a shelf and when or maybe if I install it along with a strobe on right wing tip, it'll need a switch, and the rear location makes sense given that it's on and left on for the entire flight, each and every flight.
 

Big Ed

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Reaching over his shoulder for a switch during an engine out emergency is how John Denver died.

If you decide to unload that seatpack chute, lemme know.