Phillips 20W-50 AW vs. XC ???

Bartman

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Hi all,

Blame it on a brain fart but I bought two cases of Phillips 20W-50 AW instead of XC. Or they sent me the AW by mistake, anyway, it's in my engine and I'm wondering what that means as I'm not familiar with the additive or the Lycoming bulletin mentioned in the oil description. Whatever it is, my engine is not burning hardly a lick of oil so I'm smiling.

Bart
 

Norm

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The Victory oil produced by Phillips has additives similar to Aeroshell. The XC does not include these additives. For example many Cessna 150 owners only use Phillips XC because the additives in the Aeroshell and Phillips Victory / AW are to slick and make the clutch slip when engaging the starter. My engine guy strongly recommends the use of Aeroshell or Phillips Victory in Lycoming engines using a gear type starter due to the benefits of the additives in the oil.

I'm not sure of the exact chemistry applied to the Victory / AW but I believe it's similiar to camguard. Perhaps someone else with a better understanding of the mixture will chime in.
 

Bartman

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I finally went looking for more info (I made a double shot of coffee this morning, had to do something), here's Phillips' web page for the AW oil

and here's the blurb from the web page
Phillips 66® Victory AW 20W-50 Oil is an ashless dispersant, multi-grade engine oil specially formulated for year-round use in aircraft piston engines. Victory AW 20W-50 is pre-blended with the proper concentration of anti-scuff/anti-wear additive (LW-16702) mandated by Lycoming Service Bulletins 446E and 471B and Service Instruction 1409C. It provides distinct performance benefits compared with single-grade engine oils, including easier starting and faster oil circulation at low temperatures, reduced warm-up time, and reduced oil consumption in most engines. It maintains its film strength under high loads and at high temperatures to protect against wear and piston scuffing.
The ashless dispersant formulation helps minimize the formation of engine sludge, varnish, piston deposits and combustion chamber deposits, resulting in a much cleaner engine compared with the use of straight (non-dispersant) mineral oils.
They reference Lycoming SERVICE BULLETIN 446E, and SERVICE BULLETIN 471B, as well as SERVICE INSTRUCTION 1409C.

Service Bulletin 446E makes it mandatory for operators of Lycoming O320 H, O360 E, LO360 E, TO36 0 E and LTO360 E series
engines to use an oil additive (Lycoming LW 16702) because "when the engine is first started, for a very brief interval there is insufficient residual oil between the rubbing parts which affects the service life of components"

Service Bulletin 471B says essentially the same thing but it specifically applies to Lycoming TIO-541-and TIGO-541 series engines.

In 471B it makes reference to Service Instruction 1409C, "Original approval of the oil additive was released in 1981 to the field in the form of Service Instruction No. 1409. We believe that some operators may not realize the importance of the use of this additive."

It also makes the very startling comment, "The additive must be consistently used at each oil change. A period of non-use can initiate distress which will not be cured by later use of the additive. Its use is essential in new, rebuilt and overhauled engines."

What I'm drawing from this is that there are certain Lycoming engines that are really prone to wear at start-up due to some specific areas of the engine not holding a film of oil if oil without the wetting additive is used. But aren't all Lycoming engines, with their overhead cams that are prone to dryness when left to sit for prolonged periods of time, prone to corrosion and wear? So why is this oil additive recommended by Lycoming for only the worst offenders?

My IA recommends the use of CamGuard which I understand is essentially the same as Lycoming LW-16702 (edit: I'm wrong, read the article two posts down). I'm thinking, if Phillips makes oil with the stuff already in there at the correct proportion, and since Cam Guard isn't exactly cheap or easy to work with (the little bottles seem to leave a schmear of goo everywhere you put them, or maybe I'm just messy!), maybe I just keep buying the AW oil instead of the XC?

I have been buying oil from AviationOilOutlet.com and it's a few bucks more for a case of AW over XC but a pint of CamGuard (about one oil change plus refills before the next one) is almost $30 at Aircraft Spruce!

Nobody's paying me for the free advertising but maybe my mistake of buying the AW was destiny and that's what I'll use from now on?

What do you guys (any gals here?) think? :unsure::unsure::unsure:

Edit: Even more interesting is the FAA's Special Airworthiness Info. Bulletin related to this, https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/DRSDOCID125536679820220927131908.0001

In the SAIB there are limitations and an AMOC related to using other brands with equivalent additives. I guess the rub in all of this is that if you use an oil with the additive, when it comes time to add oil (in between oil changes), you are going to want to use more of what is already in there. If you don't, then the limitations kick in. This isn't a huge deal for our engines as they aren't subject to the AD, or the service bulletins, but if you want the protection to be 100%, then the limitations should be read as pretty worthwhile recommendations.

mmmm, coffee. :coffee:
 
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Bartman

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many Cessna 150 owners only use Phillips XC because the additives in the Aeroshell and Phillips Victory / AW are to slick and make the clutch slip when engaging the starter. My engine guy strongly recommends the use of Aeroshell or Phillips Victory in Lycoming engines using a gear type starter due to the benefits of the additives in the oil.
Good to know, thanks. :)
 

Bartman

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Interesting article provided by Mark B. over at that other, much smaller social media site


Very interesting last few paragraphs from the article,
Regardless, engine owners who decide that using the new Victory oil or the Aeroshell Plus oil as a standalone should consider that they may not be getting anywhere near the comprehensive protection that CamGuard offers with its blended chemicals.

CamGuard is not cheap, but its ingredients might offer some reassurance when an engine sits for longer periods than its owner might like. The eleven components in CamGuard are modern chemicals, not the antiquated components developed in the 1950s. The contentious dialogue and claims from either the oil companies or sales guys in a booth are really unnecessary. Pure economics dictates that if the Plus and Victory oils contained the same additives, in the same amounts as CamGuard, then the price per quart would be much higher.

CamGuard adds cost to an oil change; however, when used with Aeroshell 80 or 100 or Phillips XC blends, I think it is still the most economical way to protect an engine—whether it sits for a while or flies every day.
 
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Bartman

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I sent an email to the author of the Aviation Consumer article asking if the Phillips AW used in conjunction with CamGuard got a thumbs up or down from any of the oil experts he spoke with for the article. We'll see what he says but people are doing it based on feedback at that other, smaller social media site. :)