PPL in a Super Decathlon

[yetiking]

My dad and I recently went in on a Super D, so he could have some fun learning aerobatics, and so I could get my PPL in just about the coolest plane I will ever afford. the Super D is way more fun than I imagine it would be, could not be more stoked to have the great luck and privilege to learn in it. The Idea came about because a friend of my dad's Son also got his PPL in a Citabria, but as it turns out he took the check ride in a 172. Dovetailing with that point, my instructor is unsure how the DPE will handle taking a check ride in a plane without a VOR, heading indicator, Attitude Indicator or good visibility of any of the insterments. Any Data points from people who have done the Check ride in a similar setup?

 

[Klaus M]

Get a different instructor.

Tail Draggers trained most all of the WWI, WWII, Korean and Vietnam war heroes. I think most DPEs can handle a First Class Tail Dragger like the Super Decathlon.

Research the latest and greatest Electronic Flight Instrument Systems (EFIS). It won't hurt to upgrade the panel a little. Why Not? I believe that you are only required to demonstrate navigation with the instruments available. Most of us got our license with only a magnetic compass and sectional.

 

[darrell whitley]

indeed

 

[yetiking]

Great to Hear! I was worried DPE's may have gotten so used to checking out in C172s that a aerobatic taildragger with minimal instrumentation might be off putting, even if it is legal.
how do they judge if for instance I have stayed within 100ft while doing maneuvers? do they just have to look over your shoulder or is it more likely they will just use forflight in the backseat?

 

[Tangogawd]

It may take some time to find a DPE that will do a checkride in the back seat, only because some probably haven't. But there are A LOT that do. Dont worry about instruments.... you can be taught, as was I, to use the needle and compass to maintain roll and the VSI and altimeter to maintain pitch. Its not easy, but thats how I did my checkride... In a citabria mind you. We used a garmin 296 gps in HSI mode to do the intercept and track a course.

And don't worry, they wont need to an instrument to know you suck at holding altitude!!

 

[Bob Turner]

I sent some students to the Sacramento area for tailwheel checkrides - at least the examiner knew they could do cross-country.

The Decathlon is not the best for primary work, but I am sure it could be done. I don't really care for the back seat . . .

 

[Bruce]

Wonder how many DPE actually have tail wheel time to be comfortable doing the check ride?

 

[Bob Turner]

Not many. We are the world’s busiest GA airport and we have only one. He comes by my place before a tailwheel checkride for three landings to a full stop.

 

[yetiking]

Could I get the name of the DPE you fly with as well as the one in Sacramento Bob? I'm 4 hours in and absolutely love this little plane. Thanks for the help Everyone!

 

[Bob Turner]

Sure. Remind us again when you have 40 hours. Checkride time is a very long way off.

 

[jkh]

DId @yetiking ever take his checkride? I've now found several DPEs who come through the S.F. Bay Area to do checkrides in Citabrias (including Decathlons of course) on a regular circuit.

 

[yetiking]

I wish! its been a comedy of errors. the plane has been through 3 fuel pumps. a cracked fuel tank, a new starter, and a battery. the plane is well sorted now though. I've been enjoying every minute. which is good because they have been few and far between his year.

I would love any info you have. Im on the slow path so it might not be used for a year or 2.
Thanks for the help.

 

[jkh]

Yikes! That's a lot of repair to have been faced with so early in the aircraft's journey, so good thing you've persevered and gotten her back into proper flying shape!

We have a tailwheel DPE (Robin) coming down to KPAO from Oregon later in August to do about 3 check rides, all in tailwheel, including my own, and then we have another tailwheel DPE named Karen who's coming out from Missouri in September and will be setting up her "check ride shop" out of Livermore!

I am also one of those guys who had taken years to do what usually takes a year or so but I have a job and a family and took large chunks of time away to do startups and other really intense things that grounded me for 3-4 years at a time. Coming back each time felt like starting over, but some things also "stuck" so it hasn't been a total backslide each time, and I used the time to also fly multiple airplanes and broaden my experience with long cross-countries, doing lots of solos through complex airspace to polish up the radio work, and so on. It annoys me that my check ride is still pending this summer, but there's always something to work on and a check ride is just a moment in time, before which you were learning a ton and after which you'll be learning a ton - it never stops - so it's also good not to overthink it. It's not like passing a checkride instantly makes you a hot shot pilot, if anything, it just puts you in greater peril.

Keep training, would be my advice. Practice those emergencies like they're actually happening (because they *might* - I've already had one!), don't just treat them as a drill. Use the checklists to the point of absurdity because that's what the DPE will want to see, even though the Decathlon checklist is... how shall we say it ... not that complicated? Such simply airplanes lead to complacency on going methodically step by step, however, and the DPE is going to want to see that you have the discipline such that when you later transition to something more complicated, you won't have a "jump in and go" attitude.

Where are you based, @yetiking ?

 

[Bob Turner]

On the checklists: Even our most picky DPE accepts checklists abbreviated from those found in the POH.

My suggestion is to keep them simple, and restricted to those things that can actually hurt you. You need a preflight checklist, and mine is three items: fluids, airframe, paperwork. Before start is passenger brief, beacon on. Then I do CIGAR TIPS, and for the Decathlon an abbreviated GUMPS.

You do need an after start, an after takeoff, and an after landing/shutdown. Mine are: oil pressure, power setting, strobes/mixture, and switches.

If you really need to have a checklist that tells you to turn the master and mags on, and depress the starter button, you are in serious trouble from the get-go. And you will develop an unhealthy disdain for checklists. All opinion, of course.

 

[jkh]

On the checklists: Even our most picky DPE accepts checklists abbreviated from those found in the POH.

I was referring more to the usage of the checklists in emergencies. We had a couple of students get into trouble with their DPEs when they (the students) did a proper flow check but never pulled the checklist out even though they had plenty of time to review the list for anything they had missed. It's also easy to miss something if you have never had it before - the fuel pump going on or the prop control all the way out to extend glide, for example - since I did all of my training in the 7ECA and there is no fuel pump, there is just a fixed pitch prop. The prop control also bit me once because I had it set for cruise and didn't run my descent checklist, causing me to think I had a mixture setting issue at a high density altitude airport that I started debugging in the pattern (wasn't landing, so I didn't do GUMPS yet). If I had run my descent checklist properly, and not just from memory, I'd have caught it. Just a couple of examples where a checklist can help break old habits in other airplanes.

 

[Bob Turner]

Yes. For the DPE and simulated emergencies you need a memorized flow. Then you pull out the checklist, put your finger on it, and announce “engine failure checklist complete. That usually works.

 

[yetiking]

the decathlon is hangered at kdvo. Nice field, except for the afternoon direct cross winds. I know there are at least 2 decathlons and 1 or 2 citabrias on the field.

 

[jkh]

the decathlon is hangered at kdvo. Nice field, except for the afternoon direct cross winds. I know there are at least 2 decathlons and 1 or 2 citabrias on the field.

Ah, nice! My father used to have an FBO there in the 1970s, where he was a CFII and also ran the flight school! I've never landed at KDVO but it's sort of on my list.

As far as the cross-winds go, treasure those! I love a good cross-wind day at KPAO, where my own Decathlon is based, because it means I'll get some real practice in flying the airplane straight and all the way to the chocks, whereas on most days the run blows straight down 31. If you want to practice some genuine soft-field work, Frazier lake (1C9) is also a great airport to fly in and out of. You can simulate shorts and softs, but there's no substitute for the real thing!

 

[Decathlon 065]

The tailwheel dudes are out there, show off that sexy Decathlon and they’ll find you. Started out flight school in a 172n soloed then the owner of the only flight school with in a 100 miles didn’t like me anymore, didn’t really give me a reason, just told me “ I wish you the best” he said it like he knows something I don’t. But he’s a big airline pilot for JetBlue even trains pilots over there for JetBlue. So despite the original disappointment I persisted met others and had conversations, that’s how I wound up with the decathlon. I made a friend that’s a retired airline pilot who’s also a CFI and been flying tailwheel all his life. The Decathlon showed up on Barnstormers one day close to where he was working for the fire jumpers in Montana. He drove the 20 minutes over to where it was hangerd kicked the tires and lit the fire and soon after that I was a proud owner. we trained 40-50 hours in that plane together. he’d throw it into a stall spin hand me the controls and say “what you gonna do now hot shot?” After my 90 day solo endorsement I had over a 150 hours tailwheel time. But get this, I never did find a tailwheel DPE. As it worked out another flight school opened up and offered free ground school, they had brand new 172sp’s with the garmin g1000. That G1000 was difficult for me to learn even to the day of my checkride. .. but I passed wasn’t pretty but I passed, would rather have done it in the Decathlon, it’s so much easier to fly..