Priority for VFR aircraft in class Delta

B

Bob Turner

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2018
Messages
3,998
I am going to complain to Cerco, but meantime let me run this one by you. You - all of you - are a knowledgable group, and I value your opinions, and especially when they diverge from mine.

Scenario: approaching a tower controlled airport under a class B shelf. Normal callup, ending with the word landing. Tower says "aircraft calling, remain clear, call in ten minutes." OK, I have done this before.

While I was holding, two other aircraft called inbound, wanting pattern work. Both were cleared in, A student was given a takeoff clearance to do pattern work. So after that, I asked for my sequence inbound. Controller said "you do not have a transponder - it is too dangerous. Call me in ten minutes. I told him I was climbing to 3,900 feet. That is 100' above his class Delta. When he figured out what I was doing, he gave me a landing clearance.

I think he knew I was going to circle above his tower until I could claim "minimum fuel," and I suspect it was easier to let me land.

So your opinions: I am only required to have 30 minutes of fuel in reserve. I was held for 20 minutes. A departing aircraft was given priority over my landing. The Controller's handbook (now a 729 page monstrosity) clearly states that priority is "first come, first serve." (Exceptions can be found in paragraph 2-1-4, page 48.)

Should I be upset, or should I accept that controllers do not like Cubs, and that I am now an anachronism?

Anything else I should mention to Cerco?
 
Yes. Just got some input from another controller - she says it is a judgment area, but holding an inbound and granting touch and goes is not good form.
I was based at this airport in 1966, and one of my students runs a repair shop there.
My letter is ready for the mail; I was just hoping for a little more input.
 
Bob,
I wouldn't send a letter, I'd call the tower manager. The controllers at Class D facilities are usually early in their careers and are looking for options to move up/out. As such, as you probably know, they're usually very approachable. I'd call and explain your circumstances, your activities as an instructor and just ask that when they see you coming they not clench up in fear. Let them know you're respectful of and reponsive to their concerns and I'd bet you won't have that problem again.
 
Bartman said:
Bob,
I wouldn't send a letter, I'd call the tower manager. The controllers at Class D facilities are usually early in their careers and are looking for options to move up/out. As such, as you probably know, they're usually very approachable. I'd call and explain your circumstances, your activities as an instructor and just ask that when they see you coming they not clench up in fear. Let them know you're respectful of and responsive to their concerns and I'd bet you won't have that problem again.
Click to expand...

I think there is a tendency for controllers who want to move up to operate in a small airport environment like they were in a large airport environment. For example, last night we flew down toward New Bern, NC and I had the CT frequency tuned on the radio for about 20 minutes total. The controller made exactly two transmissions in that time frame and he took the opportunity to speed talk both of them.
 
See? I get good advice here. Is there an easy way to find the tower phone number?
 
one of the aviation websites must have it or call an FBO there and ask them for the number. airports op is another number to ask for, they'll definitely have the number for the tower cab then just ask for the manager.
 
BB57 said:
I think there is a tendency for controllers who want to move up to operate in a small airport environment like they were in a large airport environment. For example, last night we flew down toward New Bern, NC and I had the CT frequency tuned on the radio for about 20 minutes total. The controller made exactly two transmissions in that time frame and he took the opportunity to speed talk both of them.
Click to expand...

similar story but different, we're at Delhi, India about two weeks ago.....super late in the evening and the girl on clearance delivery is talking like she's got a mouthful of food and super fast! she blasts out our departure clearance and I just look over at the captain and start laughing. she read it again, a little slower but i'm still like, "wha'd she say?". these big airports are barely handling any traffic so the fast delivery of the clearance was totally unnecessary. usually their english is excellent so this wasn't the norm.
 
Sounds like misplaced passive aggression towards your ability to operate in the Mode C veil without a transponder. FAA rules deem it safe for you to operate in Class D without a transponder as long as you have 2 way radio comms. Why does moving it within the lateral limits of Class B make it dangerous?

Could be I answered my own question. Perhaps there is some interaction with Class B traffic patterns in that location that makes your presence as a non-altitude reporting radar return problematic for the Class B controllers? I assume the Class D tower folks are treated as the junior varsity squad by the big boys over at Class B, and feel pressure to prove themselves cooperative.

Everything I said is speculative and should be ignored.
 
Delay is ok. Delay out of sequence violates the controller's handbook. Delaying an inbound in favor of new touch and go traffic is unconscionable. You are helping me get my ducks in a row when I call the tower chief. I had to e-mail Serco for the phone #.
 
just a guess but a lot of Class D tower cabs tha are within Class B service areas have radar feeds from the approach control facility. CDW in NJ where I instructed did. The point is, they probably know you're coming before you call even if it is a slow moving target without altitude readout. You're at about 5 miles when you call them, they can probably pick up a pair of binoculars and see you at that point.
 
This one is under a class B shelf - otherwise,a tranponder etc. would not be required. I got the phone #from a friendly controller at MYF - I will call tomorrow per your excellent advice, and let you know. If they aren’t nice to me, my letter will be on its way with a copy to the FAA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top