Tail up on takeoff

B

bluehaze

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May 8, 2023
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southeast florida
Good morning Everyone,

I have had several instructors fly with me from time to time. The latest questioned why I wasn't bringing the tail up more on takeoff. Most of the time it is only getting off the ground 6"-8" and the takeoff is with a high AOA and more like a 3 point takeoff. He and I practiced getting the tail up higher. I will say it scared the AVGAS out of me. The sight picture is so much different and appears very low. I was able to control the bird better on asphalt for sure. It was very uncomfortable though. Can anyone give me insight on this? The bird came off the ground a lot smoother and felt much better than the normal tail low I have been using.

Thank you in advance. Hope everyone has a wonderful day!!!
 
I use mostly tail low. But some aircraft need a bit more speed on liftoff for good controllability.

The Waco UPF-7 can get airborne slightly before full aileron effectivity, so I always lifted the tail about a foot. I do the same in a Stearman, although it really doesn't need it.
 
If you have a long enough run way bring the tail up and down several times going down the runway with out taking off. Just before lift off reduce power but not enough to drop the tail. That's the sweet zone and it changes based on all of the following factors. Flap setting, weight of aircraft, winds, throttle setting, etc. Flying a tail wheel aircraft usually means flying the tail first in a multitude of conditions. Of course it is a bit unnerving at first as yes there is a point of no return bringing the tail up too much and running the prop into the ground but normally you are further away from that situation then you are perceiving. If someone was shooting video of this operation it is also valuable as you will then see you were probably further away from putting the prop into the ground then you perceived.
That said, don't go out on your own and bury the prop, remember the tail comes up a lot faster without that instructor in the back!

Cheers, Brian
 
On the rough stuff I ease in power until I start moving to prevent rocks in the prop, and keep the stick full forward to get that tiny fragile tailwheel off ASAP. As soon as it’s off I keep it just off the ground as I accelerate. Then at 40 knots or so I pull full flap to pop it off the ground, then milk the flaps off as it accelerates to Vx.
On a normal grass or runway I just use 20 degrees of flap, get the tailwheel off and let it fly off tailwheel low.
Not sure why your instructor wants the main gear spreading from the downforce or the extra wear on the tires - I work hard to beat that technique out of my students.
 
I was never any good at popping the flaps. Actual measurement showed no difference in ground roll.

My theory was that drag was related to airspeed, and at very low speeds accelerating to liftoff you are fighting inertia more than drag. But then, that induced burble from my yanking the flap handle could have added drag. Maybe more practice . . .
 
One good thing about the flaps for me is I don't have any lol

Really good point about not rolling it over not having the instructor in the back. Thanks for pointing that out. That would have made for a very bad day for me.

Sounds to me like there is a happy medium between too high and too low. When it is too low I fell like I am dragging it off the runway, plus all the taildragger pilots at the glider club want to put in their two cents. hahaha

I think I can take it off the good a little more just not to a normal cruise sight picture.
 
Everybody has an opinion. Mine is that you want to be airborne as soon as the airplane will fly with full controllability, then climb at Vx until you no longer have a suitable engine out option.

My friends like to go out half flaps and 90 indicated, reaching 1000' agl two miles west of the airport. We have an unblemished record west of our airport - engine failures resulting in forced landings west of the airport boundary are fatal. But some like the kinetic energy of climbs well above Vy flaps up. Who know why they like flaps at those speeds. Hard on the flap tracks.
 
It kind of sounds like you're not used to wheel landings with the tail in a level attitude.
You can take off with the tail just off the ground an inch or all the way to level with zero AOA, or an infinite amount in-between.
It depends on the conditions, calm, gusty crosswinds, smooth or bumpy runways, or just your mood at the time.
Your current TO technique of raising the tail 6-8" off is somewhat like a soft field TO, you should accelerate to a higher climb speed while still in ground effect. Then climb out around VY or VX, whatever is needed.
Try raising the tail a little more but not level. Let it accelerate with just a touch of back pressure and the plane will fly off when it's ready. No need to "rotate" at all. On a gusty crosswind you may want to raise the tail more than you currently do and then rotate off without any possibility of side loads and still have good speed and control in the gusty conditions.
On my Champ I usually reduce the back pressure and let the tail come up halfway and keep a certain amount of back pressure and let it fly off when ready. That's under normal conditions.
 
Very good explanation, I would suggest sitting in the plane and get some friends to pick up the tail till the prop is just several inches from ground to get the site picture and I bet you’ll be shocked what it really is. Many years ago (before required tail wheel sigh off) my instructor had me go the length of the runway on one wheel then do go around and do it again on the other wheel. This runway was over 6000 feet. Some of the best training I could have received at the time. PS this was before loran🥴
 
Some of what people might consider normal probably has to do with what they learned in. A Cub will have the tail way up in the air as you're accelerating down the runway and it won't need much rotation to start flying. A C-120 will have the tailwheel not much off the ground and it likes it there as it starts flying. The Citabria is somewhere in between and you'll feel it being happy where it wants to be if it's trimmed before takeoff for the initial climb. I initially tried flying the C-120 like a Cub and it just stayed stuck to the runway. Same things happens with a Citabria if you keep the tail way up there.

I haven't flown in months but have a GCAA reserved for tomorrow, I'll try to remember to pay attention to what I'm doing as we're going around and round the pattern.
 
Depends

Ifa crosssind I like to have the tail up a little more, I’ll roll the downwind wheel off like a glass water takeoff, then fully airborne


higher DA and I’ll have the tail up a bit too

Nice thick air, not much of a cross I’ll enjoy the performance of a tail low

break ground, accelerate and build energy as runway and clear way allows, climb as required
 
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