Upgrade Time - what are your thoughts?

T

TwinCessna

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
17
Location
Dallas, TX
The time has come for the panel in my 1970 7GCBC to be updated, and I know many of you have done the very same thing. Just bouncing off my thoughts to get other's opinions. I'll post the before and after shots. Also want to mentioned my inspiration for the "end look" is from BrianSchiff's panel - can be found here: https://champcitabriadecathlonforums.com/attachments/2020-08-01-15-48-19-jpg.2567/

Here's the list of the new items going in.

1. New updated metal panel from ACA (Instrument Panel Upgrade - panel, sub-panel, glare-shield)
2. Uavionix AV-30
3. Garmin GTR 200B
4. Garmin GTX345 or GTX335 w/GDL50 - good arguments for both. Wanting ADS/B "in", but less cockpit clutter would be nice.
5. Garmin Aera 660 mounted in AirGizmo dock. I already have the 660 and love it!

These next two items are in the thought process at the moment.
(optional) Fuel Flow meter - either JPI FS-450 or EI FP-5L. (that could be a whole other discussion thread)
-OR-
(optional) JPI EDM-800

All thoughts, comments and questions are appreciated. Really want to think this through before the install date. I have some time since all the shops around my area are back-logged till Jan 2022. (DFW area)

Thanks everyone!


Here's a shot of the current panel:
1627073627972.webp
 
Mainly, fly cross-country flights without having to strap every portable electronic device to the interior. It's not ADS/B compliant, and I want to have ADS/B "in". I have iPads & the Aera 660 - but it's a cluster-joke to "deal" with these every time I fly. I also believe it will add value to the plane if it were upgraded significantly. On the current panel, the only reliable instruments are the tachometer, turn & slip and airspeed (and the engine gauges). The altimeter is broken (stuck at 48K feet) & the heading indicator spins like a slot machine. The transponder works, but the Narco nav/com does not - which renders the CDI useless. Intercom is alright, but that doesn't matter since the radio doesn't work. And, aerobatics are not the main reason for my flying.

Does that help? Basically - it's in need of a complete make-over. Oh - the compass is ok - it's staying. :)
 
I’ve installed a GNC375 and G5 which will cover the nave issue, adsb in and out, as well as new transponder in one unit. Also could be IFR if needed of course the alt needs corrected. It took a wile to get used to the new radio but I am enjoying this. Remember it’s only money, and personally to me it was worth the investment.
Best of wishes on your choices.
 
Thanks Bruce - something to think about! That will drive the CDI and give me a reason to keep it - plus add some confidence backup in the event of inadvertent IMC situations.
 
What are your thoughts on the FF choices? I would like to add either a JPI or EI fuel flow But haven’t researched much.

BTW, I just ordered an AV30C Too.

Lee
 
For fuel flow, I might go with EI. There's a ton of comparisons, and a ton of happy owners with each. I really don't think we could go wrong with either. As one poster put it.... "No one will admit they bought a bad unit, so everyone will love the one they own". About the only nod to EI that was noteworthy. It appears most have great success with EI customer support, and fairly lackluster support with JDI. Other's reviews, not mine. I might replace engine gauges too, so it might be "neater" looking if they were all from the same company. Not 100% sure yet.
 
When will your AV-30 be installed? I know you just ordered it, but curious about time from ordering to using it in your plane.
 
Spruce says it will not ship until late August. I expect it will take me a day to install. I’ll report back once it’s installed.

concerning EI and JPI, I have used both companies with good results and good service from Both. I have a couple of EI (tach and engine monitor) products in my Citabria and JPI products in my Mooney.

lee
 
I kick myself every day that I didn't wait a few more weeks for the AV-30 to be certified. Great piece of kit.
 
TwinCessna said:
When will your AV-30 be installed? I know you just ordered it, but curious about time from ordering to using it in your plane.
Click to expand...

I finally received my Av30c. It took several weeks for Spruce to get them in. Installed the Unit this week and it took about 12 hours from unpacking to test flying. The Av30 works great as an attitude indicator. I flew several 60 degree bank turns and several minutes of 30 banked turns and it worked perfectly. Extremely pleased with the unit. While mine is configured as an attitude indicator it also displays unslaved heading. The precession is comparable to traditional un-slaved gyros.

install cost was $50 for my mechanic to over see the project.

lee
 

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Nice! Thanks for the pic and the info about the AV-30. My install isn't until the end of the year - shops are buried around here. I noticed an AV-20 in your panel too. You like it? Good interaction with the AV-30 without repeating a lot of functions? Was considering adding that as well. First thought was it's a bit overkill if you have a "30", but I can see where they would really compliment each other. Being able to leave a screen on one, instead of having to change screens on a single device to get the same info.
 
Laytonl said:
I finally received my Av30c. It took several weeks for Spruce to get them in. Installed the Unit this week and it took about 12 hours from unpacking to test flying. The Av30 works great as an attitude indicator. I flew several 60 degree bank turns and several minutes of 30 banked turns and it worked perfectly. Extremely pleased with the unit. While mine is configured as an attitude indicator it also displays unslaved heading. The precession is comparable to traditional un-slaved gyros.

install cost was $50 for my mechanic to over see the project.

lee
Click to expand...

Can you show a pic of the HSI screen?

Bang for the buck on this product is just out of the world. Literally can save your life for $2000.

I scared the crap out of myself a few months ago. Misinterpreted conditions and found myself climbing thru a layer of solid IMC right after takeoff at about 500' AGL. Fortunately it was a thin layer and I popped into VMC at pattern altitude. Gotta say though, having just installed an electronic AI was a huge comfort! As soon as I lost the horizon, I locked eyes on my AI and held my attitude while I considered my options.

I have the RC Allen, which just shows attitude. I did not think I would need airspeed and altitude, but my interior cockpit lighting is weak and my old eyes have trouble reading my unlit steam gauges. If my RCA gives me any trouble at all, just the slightest excuse, I am going to upgrade to the AV-30.
 
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Big Ed - totally agree! As much as aviation stuff costs - what you get for $2K is really incredible. I saw these units at Oshkosh this year. My only concern was that it didn't seem to be "smooth" as you changed heading, attitude, etc. I dismissed it as the "demo unit" and that real life application wouldn't be that way. Make sense? Laytonl - can you confirm that the AV-30 operates smoothly as you turn/descend/etc? Does what I'm asking make sense? Hard to describe. But, my first thought was "this can't be how the real unit works - pilots would go nuts over this" The demo unit I was playing with at OSH was "jumpy" while checking it out. There we're about 15 people in line to talk to the reps, so I didn't wait around to ask. Figure I'd get some real world answers from this forum. BTW - hadn't been to OSH in about 10 years - wow! what a blast!
 
Responses to some of the questions above.

twinCessna: i put the av20 in a couple of years ago as a backup to my vacuum AI. It will continue to be my backup but will also use it as my clock and G-meter.

Big Ed: the certified version requires the HSI to be ”locked out” so you don’t inadvertently lose the AI by pushing the wrong button. Therefore, I have not looked at the HSI option on the unit. I will unlock it one to test and let you know how it looks.

the unit movement is smooth with no discernible jumpiness other oddities.

the AI unit has three screens. One screen has EFIS, screen two allows for different items to be presented (AoA, etc) and screen three is just a plain AI.

I‘ve found the EFIS screen to be very helpful. It’s an all-in-one instrument with altitude, IAS, TAS, and VSI. Very intuitive.

the install and owners manuals are on the internet if you want to know more.

lee
 
Thanks for clearing that up! I'm excited about adding the AV-30 to the panel, AND after reading your post, I think I'll go ahead and add the AV-20. I think they really compliment each other - and I have plenty of room for both. This will do a bunch to bring my 1970 bird current. Avionics will be Garmin GTR200B and GTX345 to cover ADS-B in/out. Panel mounting the Aera 660 too. I'll post pics once my plane goes to the shop (late December now). Lee - do you have a "zoomed out" shot showing your entire panel? I just forwarded your existing shot to my avionics guy so he knows what I'm looking for. My latest "issue" is whether or not to keep the HSI. My current one spins like a Las Vegas slot machine - totally unusable. I also don't have a VSI at the moment. I know the other new instruments will cover that, but it would be great to have one dedicated in the panel....
 
TwinCessna said:
Thanks for clearing that up! I'm excited about adding the AV-30 to the panel, AND after reading your post, I think I'll go ahead and add the AV-20. I think they really compliment each other - and I have plenty of room for both. This will do a bunch to bring my 1970 bird current. Avionics will be Garmin GTR200B and GTX345 to cover ADS-B in/out. Panel mounting the Aera 660 too. I'll post pics once my plane goes to the shop (late December now). Lee - do you have a "zoomed out" shot showing your entire panel? I just forwarded your existing shot to my avionics guy so he knows what I'm looking for. My latest "issue" is whether or not to keep the HSI. My current one spins like a Las Vegas slot machine - totally unusable. I also don't have a VSI at the moment. I know the other new instruments will cover that, but it would be great to have one dedicated in the panel....
Click to expand...

A matched pair of AV-30's with one as AHI and one as HSI would be sweetness. I assume they are like the GI-275 and have automatic reversion capability? IMO that would be way more bang for the buck than an AV-30 and an AV-20 in the same panel.

I'm always happy to spend someone else's money. 🤑
 
yes you are! But hmmm... somthing to think about. There's only a $1100 diff between the two (installation excluded). Might be a good replacement for my slot machine HSI - which I intend to get rid of anyway. Time to think.... Out of the old panel, the only 3 1/8 instruments surviving are the Altimeter, Airspeed, RPM and Turn&Slip. Leaves room for 2 more. We'll see. As always, can easily out-spend the aircraft. Any of you going to pay $80K for this plane when I'm done? Gotta quit thinking about it for a few days - giving me a headache!
 
TwinCessna said:
Thanks for clearing that up! I'm excited about adding the AV-30 to the panel, AND after reading your post, I think I'll go ahead and add the AV-20. I think they really compliment each other - and I have plenty of room for both. This will do a bunch to bring my 1970 bird current. Avionics will be Garmin GTR200B and GTX345 to cover ADS-B in/out. Panel mounting the Aera 660 too. I'll post pics once my plane goes to the shop (late December now). Lee - do you have a "zoomed out" shot showing your entire panel? I just forwarded your existing shot to my avionics guy so he knows what I'm looking for. My latest "issue" is whether or not to keep the HSI. My current one spins like a Las Vegas slot machine - totally unusable. I also don't have a VSI at the moment. I know the other new instruments will cover that, but it would be great to have one dedicated in the panel....
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay. Here is my panel photo. It’s a little blurry because it was taken in flight. I plan to replace my kx155 with a gnc-355 to get go’s approach capability. Lee
 

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