Why do you compete or not compete??

Bartman

Bartman

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Most of the planes we're flying are certified for acro so why aren't more of us flying in IAC contests? The Primary category is even designed around our beloved Citabria 7ECA and the Super D is the basis for Sportsman category.

But for all of the airplanes out there, we're not showing up at contests in larger numbers. Why?
 
I am not very competitive. I just enterd Sportsman once, because the guys teaching me said I should - and there were pretty girls there. Now I just try for the perfect slow roll, often only coming close.
 
Is there anything that about the contests that appeals to you or doesn't? Curious to see what the attitudes are towards competitive aerobatics and why we compete or don't.
 
Also, If an IAC chapter hosted a young eagles type of event for pilots to have a free, low intensity, basic acro flight, would you take them up on it?
 
I've been flying competition the last 2 years. Last year was Primary, this year was Sportsman. I flew local regional contests and went to the Nationals both years. Why? It really pushes me to fly better and more consistently, with better airmanship. It highlights for me where I'm sloppy and that's humbling, which helps to keep me from complacency. I know my plane and how it's going to behave in the air a whole lot better than I ever did before. And socially, it's a way to meet and get to know other pilots.

I'm not all that inspired by the hyperactive flying in the Unlimited category, although the skill of those pilots is jaw-dropping. I'm far more inspired by flying the perfect Hammerhead or Loop, so I think I'll be hanging out in Sportsman category for a while, perhaps permanently. And the Super D is the perfect airplane for that. I'll be flying it a very long time before I will ever consider myself a master of it. I'm certainly not there yet.

I think there were 5 or 6 Super D's at the Nationals this year. I flew a regional contest this year where I was the only Super D in Sportsman! I thought that was unusual. Usually there's a few.

Other things I like about competition acro -- I get to bring home a trophy or plaque or medal every now and then. I never had a trophy case or shelf before, but now I do. This year at the Nationals I was able to let two other pilots fly my Super D, else they would not have been able to participate. That's a good thing too, and I'm glad I was able to do that.

My goals for flying acro aren't to be "the best" or win the Nationals, although that would be nice, wouldn't it? Rather, my reals goals in acro competition are this: (1) be at complete peace and confidant in myself while watching the clock and waiting for my flight to come up; (2) a steady heart rate of 70 bpm while flying my sequence; (3) no adrenaline racing through my system before or during my flight. Sounds unrealistic, huh? Probably is. But that's what I'm working towards. Of course I want to fly high quality acro but to really get the most out of it I need to let myself enjoy it, and that means being confidant, competent and chill.
 
Its a great question, Bart. After getting my PPL in March '19 I asked my CFI what the next piloting challenge should be, and he said "tailwheel". I also was looking at how low-hour/newbies hurt themselves, and after weather, bad piloting seems to be the #2 cause. And so I looked at how to improve piloting skills and aerobatics seemed to be the answer. So right now I'm poking the air at 5000 AGL in my 8KCAB learning basic maneuvers. CFI is always saying "in competition you'd need to do X" so hopefully I'm learning the right way to do things for future competitions if they happen for me. We have a pretty active local IAC chapter which hosts an annual competition, and I plan to get more involved to both learn from other pilots, and support the cause. To me, participating in an event would be a way to further drive and measure precision flying; not really interested in competing against others.
 
Both myself and my airplane are just too old for competition aerobatics to be of any interest to me... I like the idea of learning to do a relatively low-G loop or roll on occasion, but by the time I add the weight of the instructor and a pair of parachutes, there's very little margin remaining for fuel... Spins are fun, though!
 
I've competed in the Portuguese National Championship from 2010 until its last issue in 2015. I've elected to compete in Sportsman category, because I've found the Primary to be... too simple for what I thought I was able to do with my recently rebuilt 7ECA. Previous aerobatic experience was around 50h total time on Zlin 142, never competed before, no trainer available.
I got my '69 7ECA back to flying condition, after a 2-year painful restoration, 1 week before the 2010 championship. Asked a fellow pilot who was flying an Extra300 to explain me all about competition rules, aerobatic box, judges, presentation/safety manoeuvres, breaks, and gave it a chance.
Competition was hard through the years, against Pitts S2-B, Yak-52, Super-Decathlon, Extra 300 and CAP10B.
First year I've scored 2nd place against a Pitts S2B, the Cap10 and the Super-D. I did a clean sequence on known and accepted the sportsman UNKNOWN, which was great fun.
The next years the story repeated itself, sometimes 2nd, sometimes 3rd, 2 times 1st, on 4-5 sportsman participants. On a 115 poneys 7ECA !!!
It's not all about the airplane, it's about your way of flying, your passion and focus, and the ability to manage those 115 poneys throughout the sequence. Guess I've always been the more experienced in sportsman.
For the next years all those other pilots were making bets on how much breaks (if any!) I'd use on that year's known sequence! That was part of the fun!

Competition ? Go for it! Don't think twice. It makes your flying MUCH more precise and perfect.
Airshows ? I love them, makes you fight for every feet, for every extra mph, makes you a MUCH smoother pilot managing all the poor resources available.

I'm always in learning mode, and competition taught me a lot. Talking to those Advanced/Unlimited or even the intermediate pilots, learning from them, know what references to use, the small perfectioning tricks so that the manoeuvre looks sharp for the judges to evaluate, learning from the judges after competition... well at least for me was fun.

And that's all the Citabria is about... Fly For Fun!

Pedro.
 
I agree with a good bit of that, even though I do not compete. In my only competition I beat out better airplanes, the judges said, because my vertical lines were clean. That is, you come out of a 3/4 spin, point the nose straight down, then do a graceful pull out. Easy in a Citabria.
 
Late to the party, forgot about the thread before I got around to replying.... I never had any interest in competition sports, individual or team, for 40 years. Got my PPL mid-life, got bored upright and was about to be the stereotypical lapsed pilot. I went to a local flight school with a very active aerobatic program. It was an ideal focus-- completely absorbing and I was totally spent after a 2-hour block. It basically gave me something I could do well if I tried but never master, in easily manageable portions. The instructor was very supportive, and pushed maybe 5 people to go to the regional contests. First contest I was utterly stressed but survived, and went from there bit by bit-- quite out of character. The attraction of the contests was not to win, but participation in a community of like-minded pilots, and to give myself goals to aim for during those 2-hour flights squeezed into a non-aviation career. First it was just to see how many Pitts and Extras I could beat, then I could win Sportsman on a good day.

Absolutely key for me was the school supporting its customers in training, critiquing sessions, contests, making us feel part of a community. I'm established enough to hold my own in the local IAC chapter now, but it is just not an outsider-friendly activity. The fundamental problem (after cost) is cliquishness inherent in a focused, skilled, high-buy-in activity. Necessary are: 1) instructors or schools with rental aircraft, working to foster a supportive environment, 2) IAC chapters doing more than contests-- critiquing, practice sessions, 3) newbie-friendly-- provide contacts, info, and mentors both outside and during contests, have meetings more than social sessions for old friends.

The IAC is talking about grassroots, but not much is actually happening that I can see. There was a movement 15-20 years ago to focus on that with stuff like aerobatics rallies, but it was battered down by the high-end guys (opinion). Decathlon drivers, particularly renters, have always been second-class IAC citizens, but I think that is changing just a bit as the top level is realizing that their sport is in serious danger of becoming just rich guy's playtime. We'll see.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone! Let's keep the aerobatics conversations going, please post pics and updates on your progress if you're making it to contests during the season. I'm about to jump in so I'll do the same.
Bart
 
New here, so going to jump into an old discussion. Sorry if bad form.

I competed for a few years back in the mid 00's when I had access to a Decathlon. It was a very positive experience for me. The main benefit was exposure to a flying culture that treated acro as a serious pursuit, as opposed to the biplane barnstorming yahoos I initially learned from. No offense to barnstorming yahoos, but a review of Decathlon fatal accidents on NTSB makes it pretty clear that the primary method of death in an 8KCAB is "hey watch this!"

Everybody in IAC knows someone who has died doing acro or related activities. Consequently there is rigid adherence to safety for things like aircraft airworthiness, parachutes, altitude floors, ground spotters, and progressive skill development.

Competition demands constant improvement. It is generally agreed that an instrument rating makes you a better XC pilot by demanding greater standards of precision. Aerobatic competition makes you a better stick-and-rudder pilot by demanding greater standards of precision in those maneuvers. Someone who spends hours working on recovering spins within 5 degrees of desired heading is going to have more command of their airplane than someone whose idea of a proper loop is "dive, pull and hold."

Another cool part of the IAC is exposure to top level competitors. If you play flag football, they don't let you practice with NFL players, but in the IAC the sportsman and unlimited pilots are all sitting there together in folding chairs watching and talking about flying.

I was never treated as a second class citizen for flying a Decathlon. At my first few contests I was enthusiastically mentored by the contest directors to make sure I was comfortable. Several competitors complimented me on the challenge of flying a bigger aircraft with a slower roll rate, and I think the judges slipped me a few extra points when I flew it well. Some of my friends flying S1T's were a bit irked when I beat them. :)

I was periodically encouraged by some people to consider a Pitts, not out of disrespect for the Decathlon, but just because that is the natural progression of things in the IAC. The thinking is that Pitts are so hard to fly and land, that if you can master that then you can handle any other plane out there.

Having said that, IAC does have a problem with creeping difficulty in the Sportsman knowns. It was an issue when I was a competitor 15 years ago and it is still an issue, judging from the 2019 known. Multiple vertical uplines clearly disavantage "trainer" class aircraft like the Decathlon against the Pitts. A sharkstooth 8 should be a staple of intermediate, not a sportsman figure.
 
Scary. Any idea what kind of maneuvers are killing Decathlon pilots? I do eight slow rolls a week - not interested in dying just yet.

Not really a great pilot, but I too have bested Pitts and Stevens Acro pilots in a Sportsman contest.
 
Bob Turner said:
Scary. Any idea what kind of maneuvers are killing Decathlon pilots? I do eight slow rolls a week - not interested in dying just yet.
Click to expand...

Do a search on the NTSB accident database for fatal accidents with aircraft type 8KCAB. You'll get 10 pages of hits, about 100 accidents total. Worthwhile to read all the summaries. At least half were low level maneuvering, usually showing off for an audience with a high speed runway pass or slow roll at 100 feet AGL. Something about a Decathlon makes pilots think they are Sean Tucker ... or a Spitfire pilot.

Very few fatalities during acro at appropriate altitude. A couple of unrecovered spins, 2 or 3 structural failures of the early metal wing (NONE of the wood spar), a few botched maneuvers leading to overstress, and a couple of unexplained events. A handful of successful front seat bailouts where the rear seat pilot did not make it out.

Beyond that, the usual mishmash of stupid pilot tricks: fuel exhaustion, engine failure, controlled flight into terrain, inadvertent flight into IMC, etc.
 
Thank you. I don't do low level stuff. No longer scared. Wood spars!

I don't participate in these "flyby" events either. You know the ones - "let's get everybody to fly over Sara's house for her dad's birthday!" I love formation, but not with folks I don't know, and never with more than two aircraft.

The FAA is not wild about them either - and with ADS-B, going below 1000' agl might get you an interview.
 
Found this page listing all 8KCAB accidents thru 2004, with links to NTSB reports:

https://www.8kcab.com/Safety-analysis.html

Here is the summary and analysis from that website:
  1. LOW LEVEL FLIGHT – There were sixteen accidents that were attributable to low level aerobatic flight and a further 3 accidents that involved low level flight without aerobatics. Several of these accidents occurred when pilots initiated maneuvers below a hundred feet. These are particularly important because they are extremely likely to be fatal.
  2. AEROBATICS – There were nine accidents that occurred during aerobatic flights. Four of these were caused by jammed controls, airframe failures and mechanical failures. The occupants often survived because there was sufficient altitude to affect an emergency landing or to bail out. One was due to loose baggage and the remaining were due to loss of control and possibly G-LOC.
  1. LANDING and TAKE-OFF – There were twenty landing accidents and fourteen take-off accidents. The majority of the landing and some of the take-off accidents appear to have been caused by loss of directional control. Stalls also feature in many of these accidents. These accidents are generally less fatal because the plane is traveling relatively slowly when control is lost. Sometimes poor maintenance, bad brakes and bald tires that blow contribute to ground loop accidents.
  2. The remaining accidents are almost insignificant in occurrence by comparison to the previous three categories. These cruise type accidents are a mix of mid-air collisions, fuel depletion and mechanical failures that you would generally expect to occur for a multiplicity of reasons.
 
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