Checklists - a Rant. Originally posted on Supercub dot org

B

Bob Turner

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2018
Messages
3,979
You guys know how cantankerous we older folk can get - one of my pet peeves is blocking the hangar alley during extended runups.
My alley is relatively free of such nonsense, with only two aircraft given to long after-start checklists. Not so two alleys over - we have a Garrett powered Conquest that has been timed at 1/4 hour between engine start and brake release!

Yesterday I gently suggested to my friend - the new CFI on one of the offending alleycats, and a really good instructor (reminds me of Julianne Moore) - that they shorten the after start checklist. I did that after giving her a hug, to keep the spirit friendly, and not come off as an old grouch.

She said the DPEs now expect a pretty detailed after start checklist, including a takeoff briefing. She did say they got the ATIS before engine start. and indeed we are down from the ten minutes the older owner required, to something like seven minutes. They still seem to reduce power after brake release.


We looked at the checklist. It was only five items long - including an electrical system check and an instrument check. I suggested that all that could be in a before takeoff checklist, and she said it was - they needed to duplicate it so failures could be detected during taxi out.

I no longer deal with DPEs - I will not do primary work. But last time I sent someone up, the checklist was an expansion of the CIGAR TIPS that we all know and love - I added a walk-around checklist (fluids, airframe, paperwork - three items) a before start check (beacon, briefing, seatbelts) an after start checklist (oil pressure) and an after takeoff checklist (RPM check). I had to add a non-sensical single item after landing check, and a shutdown check, but those are not important - nobody ever crashed due to inadequate after landing checklist, unless it was leaving the radar on. The DPE bought it, so long as the student carried the checklist during the walk-around.

I did say rant - I don't know what to do about this except to state the obvious - if you have an engine turning, and are studying a detailed checklist in a hangar environment, you are probably placing yourself at some risk! Skip it, get to somewhere where there are no kids or dogs running around (after checking oil pressure, just like you do in your Mercedes), and run a checklist that covers all the safety items - a short one.
 
I used to teach, and currently do in my real life jet flying, FLOWS! every plane can have a flow for each checklist, Then CHECK that it was done with the LIST.

If we did the checklist, item by item, in the gulfstream, we'd be out of gas before we'd reach the runway!
 
Bob, saw your observations on supercub.org : Well said. Tangogawd too. Since I learned flows, things go better. Fortunately my current hangar neighbours are pretty considerate.

Thanks. Scoutdog
 
Unless you have an inertial platform, the only flow you need after start is the oil pressure gauge. And not having that on a checklist is like not having it on a checklist when you climb in to your pickup. If you cannot remember to raise your flaps after engine start, surely you can figure that out with the “C” in CIGAR TIPS?

I do not care how long the before start checklist is, but if you skip the parts where it says “mixture rich, master on, mags on, starter button press, and you are unsuccessful in starting the engine, we are all better off with you on the ground, and not necessarily on the freeway, please.

Opinion.
 
We have a local school with a fleet of airplanes facing away from our inbound taxiway. One day, head up and locked, I taxied by a Cirrus that had just started his engine, and bam! I was on my wingtip! I actually shut down right there and had a friendly chat.

Since then I have been very cautious - if a beacon is on or a prop is spinning, I wait. Today it was a 172 - I have no idea how long his engine had been on before I got there, but I waited a full five minutes.

The school is training for American Airlines. Can you imagine their students’ surprise when they get in a jet? I know that American used to have incredibly long checklists, but we bought them and I bet they do not spend more than a second or two on the after start flow.
 
These kinds of things happen everywhere unfortunately. I had scheduled an appointment to go look at what must have been the most high time C180H in the US and before I got there a Baron ran up an engine at the tiedown and blew the controls backwards on the C180 damaging parts of it.
Lots of activity is usually good for airports so we all have to learn to abide.
 
A better way is for CFIs to teach courtesy. That is part of our job. Just today an IFR turbine pulled up to our main runway, blocking two VFR departures, and called for release. This sort of thing needs to be mentioned at recurrent training events.
 
there are a lot of pilots/people that are beyond training. controllers too, they could tell the guy to hold short somewhere or taxi out of the way. i understand it's frustrating
 
I do spend time with my students - don’t block taxiways/runways, consider the guy behind you on final when choosing a turnoff, consider ground congestion when choosing a turnoff, don’t blow sand and trash into someone else’s hangar, do your runups in a designated area or in front of your own hangar . . . don’t read back every word of a traffic call up with your N-number recited twice . . . don’t ask for a wind check within ten seconds of hearing one . . .

Sometimes folks are just oblivious or not thinking about it. Help them to think about getting along with others?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top