8KCAB New Panel Idea

[Bartman]

More pics from my stop at American Champion this past week. Have to look at my drawing to see if I've got room where I put the radios.

First up is the factory radio position. It's about five inches in at the radio faces and about two inches from the windshield in the front.



Then there's the panel mounted circuit breakers and switches which I'm trying to do with my project. The block of CB's and switches actually starts down below the hump of the plastic trim piece at the base of the panel.

 

[Bartman]

Attached is a redesigned panel layout. In the first draft the radios were too far to the right and would have protruded beyond the side of the windshield glass so they had to move to the left. With the addition of the AV-30 artificial horizon there's no need for a 3 1/8" turn & slip instrument so I'm going to try to fit in a simple surface mount inclinometer. The circuit breakers and switches layout probably won't take up less space than the factory's layout but maybe I can change the overall shape to leave some useable space near the top left area, maybe to move the g-meter next to the airspeed. Not shown are the intercom and ELT heads which will probably go where the g meter is if that can be moved.

Opinions?

 

[Big Ed]

Attached is a redesigned panel layout. In the first draft the radios were too far to the right and would have protruded beyond the side of the windshield glass so they had to move to the left. With the addition of the AV-30 artificial horizon there's no need for a 3 1/8" turn & slip instrument so I'm going to try to fit in a simple surface mount inclinometer. The circuit breakers and switches layout probably won't take up less space than the factory's layout but maybe I can change the overall shape to leave some useable space near the top left area, maybe to move the g-meter next to the airspeed. Not shown are the intercom and ELT heads which will probably go where the g meter is if that can be moved.

Opinions?

View attachment 3888

I like it! Very clean and functional.

I'd probably put the inclinometer under the AV-30.

 

[Bartman]

I'd probably put the inclinometer under the AV-30.

that's a great idea, not sure though how far over the bump in the lower panel trim comes but i'll look into it.

 

[Bartman]

moved inclinometer to under the AV30, a great idea @Big Ed because if I'm reverting to the attitude indicator in an inadvertent IMC encounter, having the ball there to coordinate the flying makes sense.

Circuit breakers are pull-off and/or push-to-reset, the switched breakers will release the switch to off if they're triggered (it's what ACA is using). Data sheet is here; https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/tycoBreakers.pdf

added circuit breakers, switches, and switched breakers. i'm not sure about the spacing and staggering idea so I have to order a few and try it out. by staggering the placement, the tabs which come off the back at a downward/upward angle will have room without having to have more vertical separation of the pieces. maybe it'll work, maybe not.

 

[Bartman]

second attempt at the cutout for the iPad mount, went a lot better than the first and the dimensions are dead on. the flanges aren't quite at 90 degrees but i think they are close enough.



thanks to my RC buddy Bob for machining the dies for my brake

 

[bcone1381]

Handheld stuff is a good choice. They work good, and when they got old throw them out and buy something better without a new panel.

I think the Uavionix is a good choice over the G5. But the G5 with a magnetometer and OAT sensor will give you a winds aloft read out.

Another viewpoint on the rest of it......
If you want to conserve panel space, consider the Electronics Internation CGR-30P in place of the JPI EDM 900. A lot of Cub guys are going with that unit and so did I. It fits in a 3.125" hole and is certified replace for all engine gages like your JPI product. Check for space, because it has some depth to it...5 inches or so I think

If you still want to save panel space consider Trig TY91 VHF radio and Trig TT22 transponder. Cub Guys also like these. The Tuning Head fits in a 2.25" hole, and is about 2.5 inches deep. Each head is wired to a " Brain Box" The Brain Boxes are easy to install with Adel Clamps onto tubes. and very light weight. Plus the VHF comm has a built in intercom that I understand is outstanding.

If you still want to save panel space move your CB off your panel except the Alternator CB. If a CB pops, the circuit ought to be trouble shot on the ground. At work we stopped resetting CB's....but that alternator field CB will occasional pop due to mystery issues experts say.

If you still want to save panel space reconsider a paper map. (here is where I get kind of wild) A prudent pilot carries a back up to an iPad, or handheld gps. Since the paper map fulfills this then you have it anyway and can ditch the iPad altogether and move ahead with your project....simple. You already know where you are anyway and dont need a GPS to tell you that. If you still want the iPad, try to keep the back of it cool. Overheating is the #1 reason they shut down...and it seems to me its more than a rare occurrence.

 

[Bob Turner]

Pretty soon you guys will need a type rating to operate these things.

My Decathlon has a full-on IFR panel, a glide slope receiver, and a Garmin 295. I can shoot an accurate (but not legal) ILS approach to 100' using only airspeed, altitude, and the Garmin. I can actually disable the rest, except for engine instruments, and on my third approach (every 3 months) I do so disable. Always in the clear with a check pilot. And a hood.

 

[Bartman]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

@bob, the reality is that for very little weight and reasonable costs, weather radar (not real time but close, and free), most traffic, route, and attitude can be displayed reliably and accurately while also surviving the rigors of aerobatics. I might not ever try to do a three hour flight at dusk after a contest in questionable weather but if I'm dumb enough to try it, odds are made better I'll get home (or will safely divert to an alternate) by the few items that have been incorporated into the panel. The best part is, the iPad pops out and will probably be left behind for most flights that don't involve trying to go somewhere other than the local practice area.

Regarding the overheating issue, we've been using iPads as an electronic flight bag at work for years now and I've never heard of one shutting down even though they sit in the sun for hours at a time (while my leg and/or arm are roasting) while being protected by a heavy plastic case. The display of a current generation iPad is unbeatable and they weight virtually nothing in addition to being a fraction of the cost of the other flat displays out there.

That's just where I ended up after looking at the options, the next person that looks at it might reach a different conclusion. I'm planning to buy another panel blank to have for whatever the next iteration of instruments is thirty years from now. It'll go with the plane when I'm done with it. Hopefully my next update will be in my project thread when the actual panel is being cut which ought to be in the next few days.

 

[darrell whitley]

I second the reliability of the ipad. I have the first one our company made us buy, electronic flight bag. It's still going strong. Battery still good. Course I don't use it for anything other than an aviation app.

 

[Big Ed]

I have flown several hundred hours over the past year on my iPad mini. Great piece of kit when combined with a WAAS GPS and ADS-B receiver for location, traffic, and weather. Truly a game changer to have current weather graphics while airborne. I have zig zagged through numerous storm systems that way. See screenshot below from a trip this August, punching through a cold front from the rear enroute home from Oshkosh. The towering cells to my left and right were quite a sight.

Having said that, 2 caveats: First, my software (iFlyGPS) has frozen twice in the last year. Unfortunately both times were in flight, including one at a VERY BAD TIME when I had just done a 180 in very dark conditions and was trying to find frequency info for an airfield about 10 miles behind me. I am either going to switch back to one of the big software vendors, eg Foreflight or Garmin, or possibly buy a purpose-built device like the Garmin 760.

Second, I would NOT rely on the iPad for attitude, even in an emergency. No way. Too many things can go wrong. If you ever need attitude data, you will be trusting your life to it. I do not believe anything other than a self contained, permanently mounted, hard wired device is appropriate for that function. That AV-30 will do nicely, as will a G5 or several other contenders. But flight by reference to a tablet or phone paired wirelessly to a portable AHRS box is madness.

 

[Bob Turner]

My first experience with weather portrayal was the black and white radar in the Nord. Then it was on to color radar in the jets. Finally, we skirted a big cell just northeast of Raton in a 180 using the Garmin 496 with subscription weather.

Yes, hands-down that was the best I have seen! And I remember being stunned at how easy thunderstorm flying was in the 320 with the radar on the HSI.

If you guys are getting better weather depictions, that is great! And free is way better. But I think we are reaching a limit with the magic stuff - pretty soon data assimilation will be done by computer, and we can stay on the ground while a bank of processors operates much faster than we can to take our payload to its destination.

My buddies just converted my favorite Mooney to all glass touch screens. Yikes! I need a button that takes me back to raw data. One completely checked out pilot "lost" the tower frequency on downwind, and did not realize it. I am nowhere near "checked out" but I realized what had happened and somehow got it back. I do not know how I did it - it was not totally intuitive.

I personally need at least a comm and an ILS receiver. The kind with knobs that can set a frequency to be flip-flopped.

 

[darrell whitley]

We would use the magic display for planning and long distance. But everyone I knew would use real Wx radar up close. Just saying

 

[Bartman]

AV30 going in for attitude, sorry i didn't specify that.

 

[Big Ed]

AV30 going in for attitude, sorry i didn't specify that.

It's on the drawing.

 

[Bartman]

Picked up a 3 1/8" g-meter with the Bellanca name on it, going to send it to Century Instruments for overhaul and reconditioning of the face and then use it instead of the 2 1/4 Bendix unit that was in with the project stuff when I bought it. Also scored an ACA branded airspeed indicator. Santa might be delivering an AV30, the factory will probably do the radios when they install the wings, so that leaves me to buy the altimeter, CB's and engine monitor.

Here's what will very likely be the final layout.

 

[Big Ed]

Picked up a 3 1/8" g-meter with the Bellanca name on it, going to send it to Century Instruments for overhaul and reconditioning of the face and then use it instead of the 2 1/4 Bendix unit that was in with the project stuff when I bought it. Also scored an ACA branded airspeed indicator.

Please let me know how much they charge you for OH of the G-meter, and how long it takes. I might get mine redone if the down time is not too long.

 

[Bob Turner]

I fixed a 2 1/4" G meter in the 1960s and it is still working. I think I used better fish line. Took a half hour. Now it is illegal, just like a trivial compass overhaul.

 

[Big Ed]

I'm pulling up to 5G on a regular basis, so I'm going to get it accurately calibrated, if such a thing exists.

 

[Bartman]

Please let me know how much they charge you for OH of the G-meter, and how long it takes. I might get mine redone if the down time is not too long.

turnaround is about two weeks. their catalog/prices can be found here, accelerometers start at the bottom of page three.

Catalog/Price List | Century Instrument Corporation

View our selection of instruments for sale and for exchange, and view our overhaul prices.

www.centuryinstruments.net

I sent my 2 1/4" for overhaul before finding the Bellanca 3 1/8" Kollsman unit. I'm not sure how much the larger one will cost because there are more details to the dial. There was another 3 1/8" in with the pile of stuff I bought and that one is being sent to them as well to be made to look like the Bellanca one. The dial is the same it's just missing the Bellanca name and the green/yellow arcs.

The list price is $210 for the overhaul and $70 more for the dial refresh. Not sure what I'm looking at with what I'm sending them and what I'm asking for. The second Bellanca g-meter will probably be for sale when it's done, the 2 1/4" is going in the pile for the Pitts project.