Heated Pitot Tube Pix?

I don't remember what it was called, but I was turned down for a set of Cleveland wheels, requested a "re-do" in accordance with some guidance document or other, and in short order my field approval was granted.

Part of it seems to be dogged persistence, but you really need an appendix with excerpts from guidance documents.
 
@mamontb Here's a question, why would a Bellanca Decathlon have an electric turn and bank instrument in it if it was never going to be IFR? The T&B in my '79 8KCAB is dead so I removed it today but is it required? I'd love to just put an inclinometer in its place.

Thanks!
 
Check the type certificate and the factory equipment list? I think you are ok, but I have a factory list here somewhere.

Edit: Items A25 and A26 (turn gyros) are optional equipment. The A stands for optional. I have forgotten whether an equipment list is required, but I believe it is - even my J-3s have such a list, although not as formal as the Decathlon factory list.
 
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An equipment list seems to be required.... But what needs to be on that list is the variable...
 
Does anyone actually have an equipment list that is specifically for their airframe? I don't think I've ever seen one
 
Thanks Bruce! So I could yank the rate of climb instrument as well since it's optional?

If I keep the plane I'll probably put a Uavionix AV-30 in it for emergencies and that would have a rate of climb display as well as an inclinometer if needed. Since the originals were optional, the AV-30 would be a legal substitute I think.
 
Bartman said:
Thanks Bruce! So I could yank the rate of climb instrument as well since it's optional?

If I keep the plane I'll probably put a Uavionix AV-30 in it for emergencies and that would have a rate of climb display as well as an inclinometer if needed. Since the originals were optional, the AV-30 would be a legal substitute I think.
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If there's no "R" it wasn't required for certification and can be removed by an A&P with a entry in the MX log. I'm keeping the analog "electro-mechanical" ASI, ALT, and TC as stand-by instruments. The ASI and ALT are easier to read during acro flight, but the 91.205 instrument requirements will be met by the Garmin GI 275s that will be installed in the airplane today.
 
The flight manual I got with the plane must be original, the equipment list and factory weight & balance are both in the binder. Thanks for the help, it makes it easier when you know what to look for!

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Has anyone ever employed a DER to assist with applying for an STC? It's looking like I will be required to use a Flight Test Pilot DER for the testing of my SuperD's IFR upgrade. They tend to charge rates for major projects like a manufacturer major alteration, not for something like my project.
I would appreciate recommendations on how I can minimize the hours I'll need to pay a DER for help. My first thought is to negotiate the barest-bones test plan for which the West Certification Group would required DER participation. I'm not sure how I can do that, either.
Thanks!
 
Again, I bet most Decathlon owners would be willing to invest a couple hundred each to get ACA to do this. The caveat has to be that it would apply to all models of Decathlon, and not specify exact avionics. I would be ok with a heated pitot requirement, but I think that should be a separate effort, so an owner could have the option.

I think you are looking at a minimum of ten grand for flight test. I could be way off base. But ACA does this stuff all the time, and knows the short cuts.

As always, opinion.
 
Has anyone ever employed a DER to assist with applying for an STC? It's looking like I will be required to use a Flight Test Pilot DER for the testing of my SuperD's IFR upgrade. They tend to charge rates for major projects like a manufacturer major alteration, not for something like my project.
I would appreciate recommendations on how I can minimize the hours I'll need to pay a DER for help. My first thought is to negotiate the barest-bones test plan for which the West Certification Group would required DER participation. I'm not sure how I can do that, either.
Thanks!
Bob Turner said:
Again, I bet most Decathlon owners would be willing to invest a couple hundred each to get ACA to do this. The caveat has to be that it would apply to all models of Decathlon, and not specify exact avionics. I would be ok with a heated pitot requirement, but I think that should be a separate effort, so an owner could have the option.

I think you are looking at a minimum of ten grand for flight test. I could be way off base. But ACA does this stuff all the time, and knows the short cuts.

As always, opinion.
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Thanks. I'll reach out to ACA Engineering for advice, too. I've been wondering how much of a "leg up" my effort might lend to an ACA initiative to make a change to the 8KCAB AFM so that it reads like the Scout 8GCBC AFM authorizing flight in instrument conditions when equipped per ACA tech drawing 7-1572. I'd think they'd like to do something like this for the IFR panel they already offer for Decathlons. One of my fan club members has a 2024 SuperD with everything except the heated pitot tube, but I believe he'd have to do everything that I'm doing with respect to applying for a "One-Only" STC. If some of us offered to contribute to ACA's effort to obtain a "multiple" STC they might go for it. Too late for me, but there are about five (5) other owners who are following me and might be willing.
 
It is never too late to look at a less expensive alternative. My impression is that since ACA did it for the Scout they know exactly how to proceed, whereas you are being led through a labyrinth by folks who have never done this before. You have no guarantee that they will approve your efforts prior to commencing an expensive test program.

ACA, on the other hand, has a template to follow, with almost guaranteed results. Costs would be the same or less, depending on who the DER works for. And they could charge semi-big bucks for a revised AFM, further offsetting their expense. You won't be able to do that.

Let's say ten of us would spend $500 each for IFR approval - that's halfway to completely cover my estimate for flight testing. The rest is paperwork, and again they just push a button and the printer spits it out.

Again, I would not go for it if it meant installing a specific suite of navigation receivers with TV screens, and they cut their market in half if they restrict it to metal spar wings. I bet they would get twenty orders the first day if they make it general enough.
 
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Bob Turner said:
It is never too late to look at a less expensive alternative. My impression is that since ACA did it for the Scout they know exactly how to proceed, whereas you are being led through a labyrinth by folks who have never done this before. You have no guarantee that they will approve your efforts prior to commencing an expensive test program.

ACA, on the other hand, has a template to follow, with almost guaranteed results. Costs would be the same or less, depending on who the DER works for. And they could charge semi-big bucks for a revised AFM, further offsetting their expense. You won't be able to do that.

Let's say ten of us would spend $500 each for IFR approval - that's halfway to completely cover my estimate for flight testing. The rest is paperwork, and again they just push a button and the printer spits it out.

Again, I would not go for it if it meant installing a specific suite of navigation receivers with TV screens, and they cut their market in half if they restrict it to metal spar wings. I bet they would get twenty orders the first day if they make it general enough.
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Absolutely worth pursuing. I'll ask them.
 
A gentleman whom I won't name until he tells me it's OK and is in the business of preparing and shepherding STCs is now helping me with my application. Lessons from my "One-Only" project may provide a foundation for him to initiate an effort for a "multiple" Decathlon STC in 2026. An unknown: is there a business case for this? I believe could be; there are a handful of Decathlon owners who have asked me to keep them informed about my adventure. Would they buy an STC (not from me: an "One-Only" STC can't be applied to another airplane) if a "multiple" became available? Are there enough of them to crowd-fund the costs of a "multiple" to cover those costs?

On a totally unrelated topic: I have a Polaris white LED that will fit a BAY15S socket. My SuperD has an A555 wedge socket. I haven't been able to find online a BAY15S socket approved for an airplane. Any ideas?
 
Sure. Look up the guidance on PEDs. You are allowed to use portable devices (not defined beyond "electronic") and are specifically authorized to install receptacles hooked to the aircraft power.

An LED is surely a portable electronic device.

I think an STC for IFR would sell - it would depend on price and how restricted it is. Try for the same configuration that allows the Scout to go IFR.
 
mamontb said:
A gentleman whom I won't name until he tells me it's OK and is in the business of preparing and shepherding STCs is now helping me with my application. Lessons from my "One-Only" project may provide a foundation for him to initiate an effort for a "multiple" Decathlon STC in 2026. An unknown: is there a business case for this? I believe could be; there are a handful of Decathlon owners who have asked me to keep them informed about my adventure. Would they buy an STC (not from me: an "One-Only" STC can't be applied to another airplane) if a "multiple" became available? Are there enough of them to crowd-fund the costs of a "multiple" to cover those costs?

On a totally unrelated topic: I have a Polaris white LED that will fit a BAY15S socket. My SuperD has an A555 wedge socket. I haven't been able to find online a BAY15S socket approved for an airplane. Any ideas?
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I've been silently lurking and watching your progress, i want to IFR my decathlon as well. If a "known process" becomes apparent in 2026, I'd like to know about it, and would even be willing to pitch in with some sort of crowdfunding or financial support to see that happen. So count me in.
 
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