Champ 7AC, How about those cable actuated brakes?

I’ve a new Champ owner with mechanical drum brakes. Does any have the instructions on how to adjust them with pictures or drawings? The above pictures are great but Im not sure how to adjust that cam. Thanks y’all .
 
In my service manual it says adjustment is done on the linkage at the cam control lever without disturbing the original cable setting.If your brakes are that bad I would suggest shoe replacement.
 
Rickw said:
In my service manual it says adjustment is done on the linkage at the cam control lever without disturbing the original cable setting.If your brakes are that bad I would suggest shoe replacement.
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Yes I’ve read this somewhere but I need a schematic or picture. I can’t see where you make the adjustment just by looking at it. Thanks.
 
As I replied earler, the Van Sickle mechanical brakes are not really adjustable. There are three places that wear down that can be brought back to original spec but as far as "adjustment" goes there isn't one. The three points of wear are the brake shoes, the brake linings that are riveted to the shoes and the cam lobes that moves the brake shoes in and out. One of the worst things mechanics do is to tighten the brake cables thinking they will get more movement out of the rotating cam that forces the shoes into contact with the brake hub. What ends up happening is the too-tight cable won't allow the cam-brake shoe junction to release and the brakes over center and lock up.
The way to get more brake is to make new brake linings (most clutch rebuilders can do this). Also, the rotating cam can be built up by welding and machined down to original size.
You can of course upgrade to hydraulic disk brakes using new TSO'ed components but the costs can be $1000.00 and up. I put hydraulic toe brakes on the Champ I rebuilt but due to my medical condition I sold the plane and no longer have access to all the paperwork and stuff.
If you join Aeronca.org there is a fellow named Jim Spee who put hydraulic heel brakes on his plane and seems to be willing to help others with the necessary 337's and engineering assistance.

Chris
 
We did a set six months ago - $4200 or so. I think the Cleveland STC is closer to 7 grand, but it gives you toe brakes.

I have 23000 hours, and only 6000 of those are heel brakes. My Decathlon has toe brakes - I prefer heel brakes by a long shot. Your mileage may vary.

Don’t know Jim Spee - is he a VDER?
 
Bob Turner said:
We did a set six months ago - $4200 or so. I think the Cleveland STC is closer to 7 grand, but it gives you toe brakes.

I have 23000 hours, and only 6000 of those are heel brakes. My Decathlon has toe brakes - I prefer heel brakes by a long shot. Your mileage may vary.

Don’t know Jim Spee - is he a VDER?
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Truth be told I have no idea if Mr Spee is an A&P/IA/DER or not...
He has written several articles for the Aeronca magazine and seems to be a guy willing to walk thru the latest way to get decent brakes on our old planes.

Chris
 
I hesitate to post links to another forum dealing with Aeroncas and Citabra aircraft that might be in competition with Bartman. That said, the other site deals mostly with younger Aeronca airframes and does have a cool little magazine they put out...they also have a forum that IMPO is nowhere as nice, populated and useful as this one so if you need to look up Mr.Spee I'm certain he can be found on the intreweb.

Chris
 
I think, without asking him, that Bart is not threatened by links to other fora - especially dead ones. Some forum owners have policies like that, but I suspect we are not under such restrictions.

Edit: That is apparently part of the Bob Szego enterprise. You cannot even look unless you send $. I think Bart's motivation for starting this forum was to open it up so that information was easily shared. Sure works for me.

There is another Aeronca forum that is open - it gets about one post a week, but there is good information there. My hope is that a lot of the good information will sooner or later also show up here - at least this forum is alive!
 
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Bob Turner said:
I think, without asking him, that Bart is not threatened by links to other fora - especially dead ones. Some forum owners have policies like that, but I suspect we are not under such restrictions.

Edit: That is apparently part of the Bob Szego enterprise. You cannot even look unless you send $. I think Bart's motivation for starting this forum was to open it up so that information was easily shared. Sure works for me.

There is another Aeronca forum that is open - it gets about one post a week, but there is good information there. My hope is that a lot of the good information will sooner or later also show up here - at least this forum is alive!
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Of the three forums I'm aware of catering to these aircraft this one is head and shoulders the best. Bart makes it so by setting the guidelines and adhering to them. I ran an R/C Helicopter site for a while and know how much time and trouble internet forums are to police...keeping everybody concerned happy is an unbelievably difficult thing to do. It takes lots of time and dedication! That was one of the downsides of Bob's site...sometimes the Moderators have to be 24/7/365 and my guess is the mod just sometimes just ran out of time to help with my silly posting problems. On the other hand his magazine is outstanding and well done and I like it very much.
Chris
 
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Hiperbiper said:
As I replied earler, the Van Sickle mechanical brakes are not really adjustable. There are three places that wear down that can be brought back to original spec but as far as "adjustment" goes there isn't one. The three points of wear are the brake shoes, the brake linings that are riveted to the shoes and the cam lobes that moves the brake shoes in and out. One of the worst things mechanics do is to tighten the brake cables thinking they will get more movement out of the rotating cam that forces the shoes into contact with the brake hub. What ends up happening is the too-tight cable won't allow the cam-brake shoe junction to release and the brakes over center and lock up.
The way to get more brake is to make new brake linings (most clutch rebuilders can do this). Also, the rotating cam can be built up by welding and machined down to original size.
You can of course upgrade to hydraulic disk brakes using new TSO'ed components but the costs can be $1000.00 and up. I put hydraulic toe brakes on the Champ I rebuilt but due to my medical condition I sold the plane and no longer have access to all the paperwork and stuff.
If you join Aeronca.org there is a fellow named Jim Spee who put hydraulic heel brakes on his plane and seems to be willing to help others with the necessary 337's and engineering assistance.

Chris
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Thanks for the great explanation! I get it now.
 
Hiperbiper said:
As I replied earler, the Van Sickle mechanical brakes are not really adjustable. There are three places that wear down that can be brought back to original spec but as far as "adjustment" goes there isn't one. The three points of wear are the brake shoes, the brake linings that are riveted to the shoes and the cam lobes that moves the brake shoes in and out. One of the worst things mechanics do is to tighten the brake cables thinking they will get more movement out of the rotating cam that forces the shoes into contact with the brake hub. What ends up happening is the too-tight cable won't allow the cam-brake shoe junction to release and the brakes over center and lock up.
The way to get more brake is to make new brake linings (most clutch rebuilders can do this). Also, the rotating cam can be built up by welding and machined down to original size.
You can of course upgrade to hydraulic disk brakes using new TSO'ed components but the costs can be $1000.00 and up. I put hydraulic toe brakes on the Champ I rebuilt but due to my medical condition I sold the plane and no longer have access to all the paperwork and stuff.
If you join Aeronca.org there is a fellow named Jim Spee who put hydraulic heel brakes on his plane and seems to be willing to help others with the necessary 337's and engineering assistance.

Chris
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Hey Chris,thank you much for this,I haven't touched my brakes so I just looked in my service manual to help,bad advice from manual.By the way my brakes work great,will hold at full throttle.Rick
 
Bob Turner said:
Edit: That is apparently part of the Bob Szego enterprise. You cannot even look unless you send $. I think Bart's motivation for starting this forum was to open it up so that information was easily shared. Sure works for me.
Click to expand...

i joined the aeronca club (and even bought a shirt!) when I first bought my Citabria but the forums were both behind a paywall and dead! the Facebook group was active but it's facebook and so not very good for ongoing discussions of technical subjects so I did this site, left it free, no ads, and am happy to keep it going. i don't love links to outside social media sites since the info there can be posted here instead of posting links off-site but i try not to let my panties get too twisted when people do it.

Glad to know it's helping people to enjoy these awesome planes.
 
Hiperbiper said:
As I replied earler, the Van Sickle mechanical brakes are not really adjustable. There are three places that wear down that can be brought back to original spec but as far as "adjustment" goes there isn't one. The three points of wear are the brake shoes, the brake linings that are riveted to the shoes and the cam lobes that moves the brake shoes in and out. One of the worst things mechanics do is to tighten the brake cables thinking they will get more movement out of the rotating cam that forces the shoes into contact with the brake hub. What ends up happening is the too-tight cable won't allow the cam-brake shoe junction to release and the brakes over center and lock up.
The way to get more brake is to make new brake linings (most clutch rebuilders can do this). Also, the rotating cam can be built up by welding and machined down to original size.
You can of course upgrade to hydraulic disk brakes using new TSO'ed components but the costs can be $1000.00 and up. I put hydraulic toe brakes on the Champ I rebuilt but due to my medical condition I sold the plane and no longer have access to all the paperwork and stuff.
If you join Aeronca.org there is a fellow named Jim Spee who put hydraulic heel brakes on his plane and seems to be willing to help others with the necessary 337's and engineering assistance.

Chris
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it's these guys (our helpful A&P members, you know who you are) that really put the value into this place. i just keep the electrons going in the right direction.
 
Ok. Forgive me for rehashing an older thread, but I’m looking to you Bob Turner for a quick “NO” or “yeah, I see nothing wrong with this…

i have a ‘66 ECA project that will very likely get parted out soon. I’m also looking to buy an already flying ‘46Champ. So here is the question… having all the parts I have from the Citabria, it seems like a very straightforward way to get hydraulic heel brakes on a champ is to transplant the brake components. Looks like two brackets would have to be fabricated and welding to the champ frame… the first question is: is this realistic/feasible, and what documentation would be required?

picture below is the rear support for the master cylinder in the Citabria. It appears all other parts/morning points are same/similar…?B5970618-7A90-4F57-BC34-66DFE21AE4D5.webpB5970618-7A90-4F57-BC34-66DFE21AE4D5.webp
 
So let me understand your question - you want to cut the brackets out of a heel brake Citabria and weld them into an early Champ?

If so, it should work fine. But if you have to pay for the welding, you might be better off with the bolt-on brackets from Grove.

Paperwork: You will need a field approval. The FAA should give you one free, but it is like pulling teeth. Make the case that it is so much safer, and prepare to make friendly contact once a month for a year.

Or you could get a “VDER” to do it for a fee - I think there are two authorized for this sort of thing - Dave Sober and a guy named Terry - I want to say “Bowditch” or something, but not sure.

Does that help?
 
One of the local Champ guys did that. I think it was seven grand 15 years ago. Worked fine.

Opinion: I own Cubs with heel brakes, and my Decathlon has toe brakes. I vastly prefer the heel brakes on small taildraggers.
 
Thanks Gents. I would prefer to keep heel brakes, and since I have all these parts already, I thought it made more sense to go this route rather than shelling out $7k for the STC kit. At this point it’s just in the thought and planning stage. When it comes to putting it in action, I’ll be sure to document it properly
 
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