Forums vs. Facebook

I hope your list is a little longer than Tucker Carlson for propaganda. Plenty of empty suits on every network. I get my barf material three mornings a week at Planet Fitness were they have giant sports bar sized TV's everywhere. Watching Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw now makes me feel like a fool. I actually thought they were real reporters back in their day. Now I see their agenda loud and clear.
 
BB57 said:
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More of us need to just say "no thanks", and that starts with more of us understanding the need to think critically and make our own conclusions based on credible sources and actual facts. Sadly most of us don't know how to determine if a source is credible, if a fact is indeed a fact, and if so what the parameters and qualifiers are for that fact.
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mediabiasfactcheck.com is a good site for seeing where sources fall with regard to left/right bias and the degree to which they present facts or rely on opinions and/or misinformation

the media bias chart from AdFontesMedia.com is another but it's harder to use for free since they monetized downloads of it but it's still there if anyone wants to see where their sources fall on the chart. Top/center is best for sources, sources in the lower left or right areas are all spin and shouldn't be used in conversation if you're trying to be persuasive or if you want other people to take you seriously.

Fact checking sites like;
www.factcheck.org
www.politifact.com
https://www.reuters.com/fact-check (Reuters is probably the most credible and least biased source out there)
apnews.com

Fact Check: Political & News Fact Check | AP News

Verify the latest news with AP Fact Check. Our fact checker confirms all the latest topics so you can stay informed, from political to world news.
apnews.com apnews.com

to name a few are great for checking if stories you're hearing, memes you're seeing, are actually factual or not. Fact checking sites should themselves also use credible sources with references to those sources to back up their fact-checking claims.

There are more here, https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/2020/04/12/the-10-best-fact-checking-websites-for-2020/ if anyone is interested.

Thanks for keeping it civil folks! This is how we evolve/learn so long as everyone is willing to listen to and be respectful of each others' concerns. Kumbaya, namaste, and all that, right?
 
I agree they are great resources Bart. The problem is that people have to want to use them. If you think everyone really wants to know what's going on, you'd be wrong. Reality can be depressing and when someone's world view is threatened, it causes a great deal of anxiety. When someone encounters the possibility that what they've come to believe might be wrong it creates a great deal of cognitive dissonance.

People who are resilient, intelligent, well educated, self confident and well adjusted will face that possibility head on, take in as many new observations and facts as possible and then adapt their world view to square with reality.

Conversely, people who are not well adjusted, or who lack self confidence, or who are not very resilient, or who are not well educated, or are perhaps just not one of the brighter crayons in the box, may not respond positively when they encounter facts that threaten their world view. They often deal with that cognitive dissonance by trying to find information, or opinions from authority figures that support their world view. They then use those alternate facts and opinions to discredit anything that doesn't support their world view. In the current vernacular they dismiss it out of hand if they don't like it or agree with it and call it "fake news". Facebook gives them exactly what they crave - so why would they bother fact checking?

The problem isn't a lack of information, or censorship, or diversity of opinion, the problem is that people who don't adapt well use Facebook to soothe their fears and get comfort in the form of confirmation bias from people they regard as "authorities", while rejecting everything they don't like. And Facebook algorithms feed into that confirmation bias.

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A forum like this is different. Here someone can throw out a theory or observation with a conclusion for comment. If they are wrong or missed something, someone will come along point out what they missed or suggest and alternate explanation. Discussion ensues and learning occurs and if it's an ambiguous issue, you'll at least see where the consensus lies.

Unlike Facebook it's a good place to challenge your own assumptions and opinions, and refine them based on the input and experience of others.
 
TheChive.com just took a swipe at Facebook's bad week. In case you weren't paying attention, Facebook's stock price dropped a little over 25% after they reported weak quarterly earnings. Unlike other big tech/media companies, facebook relies almost entirely on advertising for revenue and when traffic drops, advertising money goes with it. It's heartbreaking really. :cool:

It's light reading but interesting nonetheless.
thechive.com

Mark Zuckerberg, a parking ticket, and Facebook’s crumbling empire (7 Photos)

When Frances Haugen first appeared on “60 Minutes” to discuss internal documents detailing how Facebook’s algorithm was actively destroying the minds of teenage girls, polarizing America, and consolidating his media empire such that he could tyrannize the republic, a lot of Chivers wanted to...
thechive.com thechive.com
 
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IMO Zuckerberg did a good thing for people. He provided a universal venue to connect people via their real identities. I keep in touch with schoolmates, cousins, and old army buddies on Facebook. I also use the ACA group along with this forum to get information and advice to solve my airplane problems. Facebook makes my life better. But the outrage machine is going to do what it does.
 
Facebook has been positive in a lot of ways, I agree. What Zuckerberg has chosen to do with the success that Facebook has brought him is an entirely different matter. I don't see facing the reality of the situation as being part of an "outrage machine", the record is what it is and it's there for everyone to see.
For me personally, I'm phasing out FB and will be off the platform in a matter of a week or two.
 
It kind of scared me - I joined, posted a photo, and was inundated with friend requests from folks I had never heard of.
Then I started getting some pretty ugly stuff from my right wing brother - I prefer to ignore that side of him - and finally I starte getting those photos of folks' meals. I completely disconnected years ago.

I think, but am not sure, that Facbook is where the anti-vax community gets most of its confirmation bias.

Thanks for bumping this - BB57's post is well worth a re-read.
 
Hiperbiper said:
I'm so proud of me for not posting to this thread since August of 2020...🤐
But we had a hellva good time in Houston last week!🥳🤪🥳
Chris
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mentioning the word Houston makes me start convulsing! many nights spent there in training with Continental and Cont. Express. Glad you had fun though. ;)
 
I lived in HOU for years. Hated every minute of it, traffic sucked.. Couldn't get otta there fast enough when I retired. Good place to make a living though..
 
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I am actually delighted to be associated with this group. You guys give me hope.

As to Houston - flown over it, landed there, as well as Sugarland and Hook, but glad I don't live there.
On the other hand, all cities are now crowded beyond capacity. Went to high school near Philadelphia, and re-visited in 1979/80. Dramatic change - 69th street looked like a war zone. No idea what it looks like now.
 
Bartman said:
many nights spent there in training with Continental and Cont. Express.
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I have a bud that retired from CAL just after the UAL merger. DC-10 for a lot of years, then the B-777. As far as Facebook, never been on it, and still see no reason to go there. It's been aviation forums for me, and even then, there's a lot of thread-creep.
 
Thread creep is normal. Think of casual conversations in real life - they wander from subject to subject pretty much all the time unless you are in a classroom or something.
 
Facebook, specifically, has had a huge negative impact on the quality of online interactions for people like us that are very topic specific in our interests. They've made it soooooo easy to start new groups that there are multiple groups for specific topics which has lead to a decentralization of topical activities which doesn't really make anything better, it's just more for sake of more. Without any coordination or organization around all of these multiple & similar groups, the community suffers while the people that each manage a group think they're doing something positive. There are some examples of well moderated FB groups that are productive but the challenge is to keep them active in an environment where the software/platform doesn't facilitate organization and archiving the way a forums site does.

As an example, go to google and search for "8KCAB TCDS", what is the top search result? What comes up when you search for "Citabria Milman"?

Then there's the lack of corporate responsibility from these "platform" companies. They claim they just create the framework and it's the users that abuse it so it isn't their responsibility. I reject that argument and feel there should be consequences for these companies that have a negative impact on society while profiting wildly. It's outside the scope of our little site though.
 
I do wish we could get ACA to join this forum instead of (or in addition to) Facebook. They do post a lot of really useful information, especially in their responses to questions. All that - unfortunately - is not indexed by search engines. And of course it's one big disorganized jumble. One thing that's useful - is Marketplace. Got tired of the ever increasing fees on eBay - selling / buying on Facebook is a better experience, as you can look up the other person's profile. Obviously you can still get scammed - as anywhere else - but it's nice to have a better alternative to craigslist
 
volvo164 said:
I do wish we could get ACA to join this forum instead of (or in addition to) Facebook. They do post a lot of really useful information, especially in their responses to questions. All that - unfortunately - is not indexed by search engines. And of course it's one big disorganized jumble. One thing that's useful - is Marketplace. Got tired of the ever increasing fees on eBay - selling / buying on Facebook is a better experience, as you can look up the other person's profile. Obviously you can still get scammed - as anywhere else - but it's nice to have a better alternative to craigslist
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ACA started and runs the FB forum, so zero chance of getting them to abandon FB for this website. It's a marketing tool for them, so they want the eyeballs. Might be able to get them to participate here, however, especially since Bart does all the admin effort. Free chicken.

Bart, have you considered turning this into a type club, or doing that in addition to this? I would join.

I spent months on TAP, Barnstormers, etc looking for a plane. Switched to FB and found my Decathlon in a week. 100 miles away. Complain about FB all you want, but sometimes raw numbers and mass eyeballs are an advantage.
 
The big problem with a third party forum site like us being adopted by ACA as a place to interact with the public is that they can't control everything that goes on here. If they have a particularly bad interaction with a customer over a product or service and if that customer comes here to air dirty laundry, ACA can't necessarily quash it or keep it from blowing up as a really negative thread. It's a huge threat that I understand because I've operated forums for profit and it's why I've never really reached out to ACA to come join us here. I ran a site called MultiRotorForums.com, we had a worldwide membership of over 24000 people (it was the first thing I did when I woke up and the last thing I did before I went to bed every day for seven years) and we were the first real community of knowledgeable DJI users. DJI knew who I was! 🤗 But as soon as they could take the traffic to their own site that they could control, they were gone!

There's a downside to a manufacturer's forum too though, people think that they can't really say what they want to say because the factory people are controlling the moderation. That feeling of being overcontrolled kills the vibe and leaves everyone feeling like they're in a convention of fanboys where the unspoken stuff can't be spoken. Like Bob railing about how he wants a 160hp in his Decathlon, it would be like a nuisance post whereas it's welcome here! You complain all you want Bob!

To get ACA to cooperate here I'd have to give them assurances that anyone who shows up to air particularly dirty laundry would be asked to take their issue up with ACA directly/privately and I'd have to delete their post that was used to start the muck. I already would do that but I wouldn't really have to. With ACA taking the jump into participating here, I would have to. That doesn't bother me and it shouldn't bother you but we all have as much to lose as we have to gain in having them active here. It would be dependent on how chill we can all be in participating here.

If anyone from ACA is reading this, and I hope you do visit once in a while to see what's going on, I'd be happy to have you here with us, out in the open, with assurances that we'll deal with problematic issues responsibly and together.
 
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Agreed Bart. I flew a 0-360 powered 7GCBC a dull decade before ACA made its first metal spar wing. And what did they do? They added a note to the TCDS indicating ACA metal spar wings are required for a 160 hp or 180 hp engine. Over night they killed the ability to get a 337 field approval for an installation that had been out there for a couple decades with zero issues, as it’s now in conflict with the TCDS, regardless of volumes of prior “approved data”.

I’m sure it’s generated a few sales and I’m sure it‘s promoted their agenda to phase out wood wings, but it stole value from existing wood wing Citabria owners.

Give my 7KCAB got ACA metal spar wings before I bought it, I don’t have a dog in the fight, but it still bothers me as it’s a profit over customer decision.

I can say that here, but when I say it on their Facebook page when someone raises the question of ”can I….” more often than not the post disappears.
 
Bob Turner said:
It kind of scared me - I joined, posted a photo, and was inundated with friend requests from folks I had never heard of.
Then I started getting some pretty ugly stuff from my right wing brother - I prefer to ignore that side of him - and finally I starte getting those photos of folks' meals. I completely disconnected years ago.

I think, but am not sure, that Facbook is where the anti-vax community gets most of its confirmation bias.

Thanks for bumping this - BB57's post is well worth a re-read.
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Agreed. I like being able to stay in touch with extended family, friends, pilots and feds I used to work with, etc. And Inlike being able to interact with a few specialty interest forums (Citabrias, Short Wing Pipers, CCR and Cave Diving).

But I don’t like the rabid politics, the general intolerance to people with differing opinions, the incredibly level of ignorance and irresponsible spreading of non factual information with near zero effort to fact check, or the near constant friend requests form people I don’t know, and share no common interests with.

Strangely, most of those friend requests from strangers who don’t fly or CCR cave dive, seem to be pretty young ladies offering to show me pictures of themselves. Dollars to donuts most of them are probably hairy chested guys with names like Boris or Vlad
 
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