8KCAB AFM's, POH's, and the FAA, oh my!

14 CFR 91.9

(b) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft -

(1) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is required by § 21.5 of this chapter unless there is available in the aircraft a current, approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or the manual provided for in § 121.141(b); and

(2) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is not required by § 21.5 of this chapter, unless there is available in the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof.

14 CFR 21.5

(a) With each airplane or rotorcraft not type certificated with an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual and having no flight time before March 1, 1979, the holder of a type certificate (including amended or supplemental type certificates) or the licensee of a type certificate must make available to the owner at the time of delivery of the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.

I read 21.5 about ten times trying to figure it out. That is incredibly poorly written. From looking at other sources, the best way to read it is "if your aircraft was built and flown after March 1, 1979, you need an AFM."

My aircraft was built and flown before March 1, 1979, so paragraph (2) would apply: "or any combination thereof."

And per the PHAK: "The POH for most light aircraft built after 1975 is also designated as the FAA-approved flight manual." So the non-serial numbered POH would meet the requirement of paragraph (1).
 
I don't know. But I strongly doubt that the absence of the original serial numbered manual renders a GA aircraft unairworthy. If that were the case, airplane ads would say "comes with all logs and original AFM!" Especially for defunct manufacturers.

For the record, I have 2 original copies of my serial numbered AFM from 1978. One stays in the airplane, the other with the logs.

But what does a person like Bart do who picks up a project in a barn and brings it back to life, where the logs and original AFM have long since vanished? I say the generic POH, or a copy of an older AFM, is sufficient.

I will say if I had an IA who refused to sign my aircraft off on an annual because of an AFM, I would find a new IA, because that is someone who is just looking for a way to screw you.
 
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But why on earth would you worry about a switch or an engine monitoring system when you have at best ambiguous regulations allowing them to be minor alterations, and yet with absolutely clear statements that an AFM is required for airworthiness you are happy with a POH?

Agree - they are not looking for these things - but again, remember their fascination for data tags! If you were caught with a repro data tag, the aircraft was grounded! And there are really good repros out there.

I personally believe a Xerox of the original is sufficient. I doubt there is a regulation that says otherwise. That should indicate a way to proceed - but ACA will sell you an original if you want.

Logs are not necessary. Only total time is required, along with records of maintenance over the last year and AD + annual signatures.
 
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Hello -

I recently purchased 1976 8KCAB and did not notice that the AFM in it is for a 1978 model. (The guy who did the pre-buy didn’t notice either, apparently!). Now that the plane is in for an annual, the shop has let me know that we need to get an AFM for a 1976 model.

I have read through this thread but I am not seeing a source for the document. Will American Champion provide one? Are there other sources?

Thanks!
 
Halhayden said:
Hello -

I recently purchased 1976 8KCAB and did not notice that the AFM in it is for a 1978 model. (The guy who did the pre-buy didn’t notice either, apparently!). Now that the plane is in for an annual, the shop has let me know that we need to get an AFM for a 1976 model.

I have read through this thread but I am not seeing a source for the document. Will American Champion provide one? Are there other sources?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hal,

It depends on what you are willing to accept as an "official" flight manual. which engine do you have? If you have the 150hp, the manual i attached might do it for you. Print it, write your serial and registration numbers on it and your shop might accept it?
 

Attachments

While I see the requirements for an POH/AFM be carried on board for and after the 1979 aircraft production run I don't see any mention of a serialized copy being needed. I understand a new production AC would have one because EVERYTHING coming out of the factory has to be accounted for and a cover page for a generic type manual with the aircraft serial number, production date and N number would satisfy this. But that's the factory. The TCDS specified production aircraft 1979 and beyond must have plates, placards and an AFM on board to be airworthy. I remember the IAC got a waiver for aircraft competitors to leave the POH/AFM on the ground during competition...for safety and better vertical penetration I guess. 😏
A good legible copy of a year-specific manual with a current W&B, equipment list and any STCed airframe/enginge/appliance changes should suffice...

Chris
 
I think a copy of any type is legal. Mine is obviously Xerox, and all Super Cubs are Xerox or equivalent.

I think (I will check) that in some cases a POH is identical to an AFM except for the serial#/date/signature. I also think(and will check) is that the two are not interchangeable. Off I go to the type cert.
 
The basic required equipment as prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations (see Certification Basis) must be installed in the aircraft for certification. In addition, the following items are required:

1. FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual for Model 8KCAB and Model 8GCBC.

The above is part of the 8KCAB Type Certificate. Below that statement are dates for the various AFMs. Nowhere is a POH mentioned. Also, go to the top of this page and check out Ed’s post of the applicable FAR. It, too, does not mention POH. The Decathlon has a Pilot Operating Manual that, while somewhat similar, is definitely not the same as the AFM.
 
I don't know if it matters or not but most of the manuals I've seen are labeled, "Pilot's Operating Manual". What does that make it? A POH or an AFM?
 
Bartman said:
I don't know if it matters or not but most of the manuals I've seen are labeled, "Pilot's Operating Manual". What does that make it? A POH or an AFM?
Click to expand...

Recommend you browse chapter 9 of the Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. Page 9-2 contains an overview of the differences between various formats of owners manuals, an AFM, and a POH.

IMO the key takeaway is that the FAA acknowledges that prior to the late 70's there was no regulatory guidance on manufacturers, so a variety of different documents were produced. Between 1975 and 1979, the FAA standardized the requirement and format. For aircraft built after 1979, there is a clear standard for manufacturers, and also for owners/pilots. For anything prior to 1979, because there was no clear standard for manufacturers at the time, there is regulatory latitude for owners and pilots as far as what they must have.
 
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Bartman said:
no thanks, i'm going the route you went with placards as limitations and a copy of the manual at home. :)
Click to expand...

LOL, assuming the data plate you are using is pre-1979, I think the FAR and the PHAK support your approach.

For the record, I do have two copies of my original FAA-approved serial numbered AFM. One sits in my log bag, the other in the airplane.

I also have several copies of the "Pilots Operating Manual", published by Bellanca in September 1979, and which is still available for purchase on Univair. Mine says it is applicable to aircraft built from 1978 to 1980. It looks like an attempt to retroactively meet the new POH specification.
 
Hiperbiper said:
While I see the requirements for an POH/AFM be carried on board for and after the 1979 aircraft production run I don't see any mention of a serialized copy being needed. I understand a new production AC would have one because EVERYTHING coming out of the factory has to be accounted for and a cover page for a generic type manual with the aircraft serial number, production date and N number would satisfy this. But that's the factory. The TCDS specified production aircraft 1979 and beyond must have plates, placards and an AFM on board to be airworthy. I remember the IAC got a waiver for aircraft competitors to leave the POH/AFM on the ground during competition...for safety and better vertical penetration I guess. 😏
A good legible copy of a year-specific manual with a current W&B, equipment list and any STCed airframe/enginge/appliance changes should suffice...

Chris
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this.

The key point is that the TCDS only applies to the Type Certificate holder, eg the factory. The FAA clearly states the TCDS is not enforceable on anyone else.

Part 91 says that for aircraft produced after 1979 we need "a current, approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual." It says nothing about a serial number.

By connecting the TCDS requirement for a serial numbered manual with the part 91 requirement for "an approved manual" in flight, we can construct a perceived requirement for a serial numbered manual on board. But the two requirements are not meant to be connected. They are totally separate processes, meant for compliance by different entities (factory vs operator).
 
14 CFR 21.5 Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.
...
(b) The Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual required by paragraph (a) of this section must contain the following information:

(1) The operating limitations and information required to be furnished in an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or in manual material, markings, and placards, by the applicable regulations under which the airplane or rotorcraft was type certificated.
 
I am looking forward to seeing an FAA document that says I need not conform to the type certificate. Let me go find the definition of "airworthy."
Happily, I have in my possession an AFM for the 1979 150 hp Dec. started up today after three years sitting on the ramp. Smooth as silk. Even the radio worked after much jerking around with mic plugs.
 
conditions that must be met for an aircraft to be considered airworthy.

The following two conditions are stated in FAR Part 21.183(a), (b), and (c) and must be complied with before the FAA will issue an airworthiness certificate:

1. The aircraft must conform to its Type Certificate (TC). Conformity to type design is considered attained when the aircraft configuration and the components installed are consistent with the drawings, specifications, and other data that are part of the TC, which includes any supplemental type certificates (STC) and field approved alterations incorporated into the aircraft.

2. The aircraft must be in a condition for safe operation. This refers to the condition of the aircraft relative to wear and deterioration, for example, skin corrosion, window de-lamination/crazing, fluid leaks, and tire wear.
 
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