Citabria Turn coordinator replacement suggestions?

[Flyingj]

My turn coordinator is getting noisy and slow to spin up so I figure I'll be looking for a replacement soon. What do Y'all recommend for a replacement? I have little use for the turn feature as the ball is all I utilize for coordinated flight (adverse yaw avoidance). Is there something out there that is economical, simple, electronic sans the gyro, and would have an inclinometer (ball) and an attitude indicator (I do find these very beneficial)? Hopefully with some weight savings to boot!

 

[Big Ed]

I use an RCA 2610-3 AI. It has an optional analog inclinometer that fastens to the front. Some of the newer AI's like the UA-30 actually have a digital ball. I don't trust those, but apparently the FAA does.

 

[Bob Turner]

We have a couple airplanes with that WWII gyro. The bearings have long since died, so we just disconnect the air. Don't tell the feds. On one the needle leans left. Some black paint cured that.
I have seen carpenter's levels used.

 

[Flyingj]

I use an RCA 2610-3 AI. It has an optional analog inclinometer that fastens to the front. Some of the newer AI's like the UA-30 actually have a digital ball. I don't trust those, but apparently the FAA does.

That looks like a nice unit. I've always been partial to the analog stuff myself but I feel a bit hypocritical on the subject as my day job is flying a B-787.

 

[Flyingj]

We have a couple airplanes with that WWII gyro. The bearings have long since died, so we just disconnect the air. Don't tell the feds. On one the needle leans left. Some black paint cured that.
I have seen carpenter's levels used.

That's classic. More than one way to skin a cat! (Figuratively speaking only )

 

[Hiperbiper]

I've skinned that same cat (also figuratively speaking) for my Champ. I took the T&B parts out of the case, masked the inclinometer off, sprayed flat black and just like that I have a very accurate 3 1/8" aircraft instrument.
Chris

 

[Flyingj]

I've skinned that same cat (also figuratively speaking) for my Champ. I took the T&B parts out of the case, masked the inclinometer off, sprayed flat black and just like that I have a very accurate 3 1/8" aircraft instrument.
Chris

That's in my price range!

 

[Sully]

Possibly

Small Ball Type Bank Indicator 2.5 L X 1 W | Aircraft Spruce

Small Ball Type Bank Indicator 2.5 L X 1 W Bank indicators show lateral inclination relative to the horizon. In turning, instantly register slightest departure from the correct banking angle. Bank scale has white markings on a black bac...

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[Big Ed]

That looks like a nice unit. I've always been partial to the analog stuff myself but I feel a bit hypocritical on the subject as my day job is flying a B-787.

Here is a picture of mine. Note the analog ball. That was a big selling point for me. Strangely, it is TSO.

I wandered into clouds inadvertantly last fall. At that point I was quite glad that I had replaced my 40 year old TC with this.

 

[Flyingj]

Here is a picture of mine. Note the analog ball. That was a big selling point for me. Strangely, it is TSO.

I wandered into clouds inadvertantly last fall. At that point I was quite glad that I had replaced my 40 year old TC with this.

View attachment 4943

One more reason I would prefer an AI over a TC. Thanks for the pic!

 

[Bartman]

One more reason I would prefer an AI over a TC. Thanks for the pic!

J,

B777 here, I've got an AV-30 (digital attitude indicator, feather light, has additional functions, about $2000 when on sale) going into my 8KCAB panel and I am going to see how the digital inclinometer works before I add an analog one.
Next time you are in a 757 or an older 737 with the old EFIS screens, look at the inclinometer they attach to those. The size is perfect but I haven't been able to find one out there from a salvage yard!

 

[Flyingj]

J,

B777 here, I've got an AV-30 (digital attitude indicator, feather light, has additional functions, about $2000 when on sale) going into my 8KCAB panel and I am going to see how the digital inclinometer works before I add an analog one.
Next time you are in a 757 or an older 737 with the old EFIS screens, look at the inclinometer they attach to those. The size is perfect but I haven't been able to find one out there from a salvage yard!

I'll be anxious to hear how you like it and how the digital ball works out. Are you going to hook up all the bells and whistles to it as well? Does that type of installation require an avionics shop sign off?

 

[Bartman]

I'll be anxious to hear how you like it and how the digital ball works out. Are you going to hook up all the bells and whistles to it as well? Does that type of installation require an avionics shop sign off?

Not that I know of. Keeping it simple, attitude and maybe inclinometer but it will have pitot and static attached to it so that stuff could be turned on later. I might hook up the GPS feed to it, not sure.

 

[Hammersmith]

Go with the AV-30, I have installed about 5-6 of them now, very nice units, easy install, install it with the extra 9pin d-sub connector right away because there are software updates coming out that add features and improve on the non-primary features, like a g meter and probe less AOA. One will be going in my Champ once I save up the airplane fund again. Just got done redoing the interior!

 

[Flyingj]

Go with the AV-30, I have installed about 5-6 of them now, very nice units, easy install, install it with the extra 9pin d-sub connector right away because there are software updates coming out that add features and improve on the non-primary features, like a g meter and probe less AOA. One will be going in my Champ once I save up the airplane fund again. Just got done redoing the interior!

I am leaning toward the AV-30. My '99 Citabria was certified with a TC only and no AI (VFR only). If I pull the TC and replace it with an AV-30, is it considered a "required" instrument? I have read where it can be set up with 3 options: 1) Dedicated AI, 2) Dedicated DG or 3) Neither if it is not a required instrument then I can switch it between functions at my discretion. I would prefer option 3 but don't want to leave the TC installed.

Also, in my case, what documentation will be required? A salesman at uAvionix told me I only needed an A&P sign off. Is this not considered a major alteration? I've seen that their website has an STC download available, what about a 337? If I hook up the GPS feed is an avionics guy required? I'm hoping to install it myself and ask my AI to inspect/help me and sign it off. Pitot/static tests and pin outs are above my pay grade but I am most willing to learn . Any advice from you guys is appreciated to help me figure out who I need to get involved!

 

[Bartman]

Here is a picture of mine. Note the analog ball. That was a big selling point for me. Strangely, it is TSO.

I wandered into clouds inadvertantly last fall. At that point I was quite glad that I had replaced my 40 year old TC with this.

View attachment 4943

This is the one I've been looking everywhere for! It's stuck on the frame of the EADI in EFIS equipped 737 and 757 aircraft. You'd think there would be a million of them out there in parts bins where they had to red tag cracked screens, right? Nope.


The AV-30 has an electronic ball and I haven't tried it yet but I powered up the instrument the other day and it isn't bad looking, actually looks usable but I don't know how accurate it is compared to the tried and trusted analog black ball.

I like that RC Allen add on inclinometer, it's small enough it should fit just about anywhere and large enough to see.

RC Allen Mini Slip Indicator For Newer Model Bezels | Aircraft Spruce

RC Allen Mini Slip Indicator For Newer Model Bezels Add this mini Slip Indicator to your new or current Electric Gyro Horizon! Model: 444-0010-01

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[Bartman]

Pitot/static tests and pin outs are above my pay grade but I am most willing to learn . Any advice from you guys is appreciated to help me figure out who I need to get involved!

It's two wires, power and ground plus a GPS feed in if you want to include that. Pitot and static lines plug into the back and you're done if you're happy with the basic functions. It's super easy to set up and the display looks pretty good though I haven't flown with it yet.

The bonding strap is only 8" long so finding a place to attach it is tricky. I emailed them about attaching it to the ignition switch terminal which is basically ground and they thought it would be fine.

 

[Hammersmith]

I am leaning toward the AV-30. My '99 Citabria was certified with a TC only and no AI (VFR only). If I pull the TC and replace it with an AV-30, is it considered a "required" instrument? I have read where it can be set up with 3 options: 1) Dedicated AI, 2) Dedicated DG or 3) Neither if it is not a required instrument then I can switch it between functions at my discretion. I would prefer option 3 but don't want to leave the TC installed.

Also, in my case, what documentation will be required? A salesman at uAvionix told me I only needed an A&P sign off. Is this not considered a major alteration? I've seen that their website has an STC download available, what about a 337? If I hook up the GPS feed is an avionics guy required? I'm hoping to install it myself and ask my AI to inspect/help me and sign it off. Pitot/static tests and pin outs are above my pay grade but I am most willing to learn . Any advice from you guys is appreciated to help me figure out who I need to get involved!

From what I see it doesn’t appear you’re DG would be required, unless it’s on the TCDS, so you could just remove the DG and not replace it. Here’s the link https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-C/section-91.205
As an STC you need the 337.
Install is straight forward. I would suggest the 1/4” poly-flo tubing from spruce since it is a little more flexible and easier to work with for adding the pitot static. And yes just a power, ground, rs-232 in(gps) is standard but I add the 9-pin d-sub connector for easy updates, just use the extra pins that come with the av-30. 3 more short wires only. Main thing I can think of for you is finding the correct crimper for install. Most people don’t have one laying around. You do need to keep your wet compass but since a AI isn’t required you could use it as primary for airspeed, altimeter, if you wanted. Could remove pretty much everything but engine instruments if you wanted.

 

[Flyingj]

Thanks for the info Hammersmith. Great link for the equipment requirements. I do want to utilize 1/4" poly tubing and that won't be a problem for the static but am searching for the proper T fitting to access the metal pitot line. I'm guessing Spruce has one? May have to get my IA involved sooner rather than later.

 

[Big Ed]

About 2 years ago the FAA published a circular on the replacement of TC's with digital AI's as required equipment. The intent was to encourage the adoption of more modern safety-enhancing equipment. I'll dig it up later.